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Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

economist.com

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Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#561

Post by caruizdiaz »

WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #363
SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

> Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. Now, try to use Pix outside of Brazil - it's not even used in other Mercosur countries, what's the chance of having that adopted in other countries... And, that's problem #1. How much do you trust your government with your money? A system like Pix don't stand a chance to get a worldwide adoption - maybe people are naive but governments won't unify to adopt a common system cont…

> it's not even used in other Mercosur countries.

You can pay with Pix in Paraguay since the largest privately owned payment processor implemented it and it's available within all payment terminals (POS) across the country.

The government of Paraguay also runs a similarly good system called SIPAP, that is replacing card payments because it's faster and free to use.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#562

Post by fakedang »

dakial1 wrote: post #393
WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. Now, try to use Pix outside of Brazil - it's not even used in other Mercosur countries, what's the chance of having that adopted in other countries... And, that's problem #1. How much do you trust your government with your money? A system like Pix don't stand a chance to get a worldwide adoption - maybe people are naive but governments won't unify to adopt a common system cont…

Pix proposition is very valuable for governments, as it is the best way of controlling transactions, inside the country and cross-border. To you second point, I think the pix penetration/popularity proves that the majority of the people trust the government for that. There are 2 key reasons for its success: It was mandatory for Banks to adhere to the system and there are no fees for using it. Once multiple countries…

> Once multiple countries have their own PIX, they just need to build a federation structure to connect them and allow cross-border transactions.

To add to this, this is already happening. For example, you can already pay in the Middle East with India's UPI at quite a lot of places, or with China's Alipay or Unionpay.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#563

Post by uuddlrlrbaba »

WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #363
SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

> Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. Now, try to use Pix outside of Brazil - it's not even used in other Mercosur countries, what's the chance of having that adopted in other countries... And, that's problem #1. How much do you trust your government with your money? A system like Pix don't stand a chance to get a worldwide adoption - maybe people are naive but governments won't unify to adopt a common system cont…

Good? Dozens of fee free instant digital payment options sounds like a huge improvement over the outrageous network of credit/debit fees

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#564

Post by mixmastamyk »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #531
dkga wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Control over the population? That's some conspiracy theory.

Nothing stops the government from blocking your Pix transactions on a whim. They can just turn off your money whenever they want. They can confiscate your money any time if they want. They can do pretty much anything. Conspiracy theory? It's cyberpunk stuff, the likes of which we see in fiction. Only it's not fiction. We're watching the whole thing unfold right before our very eyes. I remember watching videos of peop…

They could have always done it at your bank as well. Easy electronic transfer changes nothing in that regard.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#565

Post by alephnerd »

vitorgrs wrote: post #542
alephnerd wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intruiging (in a great way). Do you have any recommendations of any Brazilian sources (Portuguese em Ingles) about the Brazilian and MERCOSUR FinTech and Public Tech industry? I'd love to dig even deeper, but my background is more NAM and Indo-Pac driven. I passed on NuBank eons ago and don't want to make the same mistake again. > Brazil, installments with credit cards are also super common... Basically when you put…

Not sure if there's an english website about it, but in Portuguese quality content you can find without paywall I would say is NeoFeed https://neofeed.com.br/ Brazil Journal too, but it usually focus more on market as a whole. https://braziljournal.com/ But most of the news are usually covered on Infomoney, Valor Economico, with the together with daily market coverage. NeoFeed and Brazil Journal focus more on "high-q…

Thanks my dude! Obv gunna do some due dilligence, but the sources you provided look solid.

Let's grab some cacha or other trashy/bourgeois booze when I'm back in São Paulo! I'm am Arak kinda guy

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#567

Post by lucasoshiro »

tpougy wrote: post #554
lucasoshiro wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it safe? Given the dimension of Pix, I never heard of someone losing money directly because of using it (for example, here in the past was common to see where credit cards were cloned) > can someone be coerced into emptying their bank account at knifepoint? There are limits of use. Banks have different settings for limiting the amount of money that will be transferred in different situations, like when using the…

> Perhaps if you contact the bank, but as far as I know it is not a feature :-( Acctually there is a feature to request the central bank to retrieve money stolen through PIX scam. It is called Special Return Mechanism (MED PIX). Link here: https://www.bcb.gov.br/meubc/faqs/p/o-que-e-e-como-funciona-...

Thanks for your information!

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#568

Post by refulgentis »

whimsicalism wrote: post #293
TrackerFF wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is a realistic option in the US, at least in the current climate. There are so many powerful and influential anti/small-government that are rabidly opposing anything made by the government, and offered to the people. The argument is always the same: - "It will stifle innovation" - "It is unfair to business" - "It will make people dependent on the government" - "It will give government more access to…

i wish i was not sympathetic to those arguments - and i used to not be, but then i actually worked in the federal government. perhaps local governments can efficiently provision services but the feds are handicapped in so many different ways it would be quite challenging to untangle. realistically, the workforce that was hired around sorting through hundreds of thousands of bureaucratic paper documents in the 70s/80s…

18F was definitively the latter.

You'd be surprised how bad FAANG is, too.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#569

Post by idiotsecant »

leonidasv wrote: post #550
WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. Now, try to use Pix outside of Brazil - it's not even used in other Mercosur countries, what's the chance of having that adopted in other countries... And, that's problem #1. How much do you trust your government with your money? A system like Pix don't stand a chance to get a worldwide adoption - maybe people are naive but governments won't unify to adopt a common system cont…

> How much do you trust your government with your money? When you use Pix, your money is not in custody of the government. The money goes to/comes from a standard commercial bank, just like a wire transfer. What the government (Central Bank) does is just the infrastructure for moving money between bank accounts. The point about not being a global standard is valid, though. Although there are initiatives in progress t…

That doesn't particularly address the point. Say the government decides that they don't like the political party you're supporting, or maybe you've been doing something they consider morally unclean like gambling or consuming pg-13 media. Let's say the government decides that your payments can no longer use the payment infrastructure. Now imagine it's effectively the only practical payment method.

It's a permissioned system.

Crypto is intended to be fundamentally different. Good crypto is permissionless. If you own it, you can spend it, regardless of what anyone thinks.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#570

Post by lucasoshiro »

xeromal wrote: post #560
leonidasv wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UX is standardized by the Central Bank and they mandate a step showing the name of the person/company associated with that Pix key before you make the payment. So you can always double-check.

That's exactly what I was looking for. That sounds great

You can see how it works in this video, after 3:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvz0Yiss4Go. It's in portuguese, but I think you will understand how the interface works.

Note that it is from a bank app (Nubank), Pix itself is not an app. Other banks have similar interfaces

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