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Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

economist.com

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Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#451

Post by gjvnq »

aembleton wrote: post #314
fdgjgbdfhgb wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You use your bank's phone app. You can scan a QR code or you can send money to someone if you know their "id string", like a phone number, an email or a random string of numbers - you choose the "id string" format you want, and you can have different "ids" linked to different bank accounts. There are no physical cards.

What happens if you miss-type the email or phone number when making a payment? Is there any confirmation of the persons name?

assuming that the typo didn't lead to an invalid/unregistered key, you will see the recipient's bank, full name and masked CPF number in the confirmation screen.

I really dislike the lack of a more anonymous way to transfer money but given how prevalent scams are here I feel like there was no better option.

Also, before PIX bank transfers required a person's full name, full CPF number, full account and branch numbers so arguably PIX is helping to improve privacy a little bit.

However the big issue is when people register their phone numbers as PIX keys because it means strangers can easily get full names from phone numbers.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#452

Post by sandos »

throwaway473825 wrote: post #229
DanielHB wrote: post #55

Sweden has had a similar system for several years before PIX in Brazil. It is also integrated with the digital ID system (BankID). The main difference is that the Swedish system is ran through a private organization managed by all the major banks (and the central bank) in conjunction. So the central bank doesn't have direct access to the transaction data technically. While the Brazilian system is only interacted dire…

>have no fees Both Swish and BankID have fees. After all, they're run by for-profit corporations. Those apps also reduce competition in the banking sector since they're controlled by a few banks which generally have very high fees on their other services. What's even worse, since BankID is private, there's no individual right to get it, and I've personally experienced banks abusing their oligopoly (buy this extra ser…

I have never heard a single person complaining about BankID really. The only downside is the huge risks, especially for older people. We basically took control of an elderly family members bankid to avoid them being scammed.

This is something they really need to work on, just add an optional extra layer or cool-down, to slow everything down. You dont necessarily HAVE to have your transactions be immediate, waiting a few days would have been fine in our cases.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#453

Post by birdflyinghigh »

owebmaster wrote: post #434
birdflyinghigh wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

150 million users migrating to what? What messaging platform has this capacity of absorption, taking that many signups at once?

I won't include Messenger and Instagram as they are from meta so Telegram, Google Chat, TikTok, Snapchat and many more.

So just like that every single user will just switch to some other app and in a weeks time, and everything will just resume from where it was left off? Maybe you just overestimate a little average user's capacity to do just that. Well I hope I live to see it.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#454

Post by c7b »

alephnerd wrote: post #446
c7b wrote: post #445

Pix (and UPI, a related system in India with similar success) are my two go-to examples for how it makes sense for the central bank / public sector to get into the retail payment space. It baffles me that most major central banks (that are considering it at all) are considering doing so in the form of CBDCs [0]. CBDCs are like a bundle of two services, central bank money and a payment system. The central bank money p…

> most major central banks (that are considering it at all) are considering doing so in the form of CBDCs Other than the EU and UK, which other major CB is considering CBDCs alone? Numerically, most people I know in the space are heavily motivated by the Digital Public Infrastructure (DPI) model both India and Brazil have been using, and DPI has been a hot topic in the DevEcon space for 4 years now. In fact, Indian a…

> Other than the EU and UK, which other major CB is considering CBDCs alone?

The ones I mentioned, eg, Canada [0], China [1]. But it's really most of them [2], the US is rather the exception.

[0] https://www.bankofcanada.ca/digitaldollar/

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_renminbi

[2] https://cbdctracker.org/

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#455

Post by tchalla »

mqus wrote: post #421
Deukhoofd wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had the same in The Netherlands. Several weather apps that requested to share all your data with a bunch of partners, had ads, etc. Then our national weather institute launched their own app without tracking or ads, and the existing weather apps all immediately joined up to sue them over it. Thankfully they lost the case. https://www.rechtspraak.nl/Organisatie-en-contact/Organisati...

Same happened in germany but sadly, dwd (the national weather service) lost. They _have_ to take money if you want their weather app.

DWD offers the app for 2,49€ one time payment.

https://www.warnwetterapp.de/katversion.html

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#456

Post by loglog »

cubefox wrote: post #340
derelicta wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh well! Good to know! Next time I'll use DWD instead of using those weird apps. Thanks!

No the DWD is not allowed to provide a weather app I believe. Because it would compete with commercial apps. It offers an app which issues weather warnings though.

DWD is allowed to provide a weather app, but not for free. So they offer it for a nominal one-time fee instead.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#457

Post by alephnerd »

c7b wrote: post #454
alephnerd wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most major central banks (that are considering it at all) are considering doing so in the form of CBDCs Other than the EU and UK, which other major CB is considering CBDCs alone? Numerically, most people I know in the space are heavily motivated by the Digital Public Infrastructure (DPI) model both India and Brazil have been using, and DPI has been a hot topic in the DevEcon space for 4 years now. In fact, Indian a…

> Other than the EU and UK, which other major CB is considering CBDCs alone? The ones I mentioned, eg, Canada [0], China [1]. But it's really most of them [2], the US is rather the exception. [0] https://www.bankofcanada.ca/digitaldollar/ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_renminbi [2] https://cbdctracker.org/

China has backed UnionPay since the mid-2000s - the backbone is similar to that for UPI and Pix.

And most of the countries on that list are either implementing their own payment infra or leveraging India, Brazil, Russia, or China's.

It doesn't hurt to have a CBDC - it gives you a seat at the table when norms and global regulations are made.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#458

Post by desiderantes »

inetknght wrote: post #230
desiderantes wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps if you get confused by fast things you shouldn't be driving?

Perhaps if you're driving, the things around you need to give you time to react to other things around you. Fewer things are more frustrating than getting honked at because you pressed a button, then got distracted by a car pulling up which you needed to look at to be aware of, then missed the printer asking if you want a receipt, and then having to press another button to talk to someone to ask for a reprint which,…

So you wrote this new scenario where the parking ticket machine does NOT print a ticket unless you confirm it (after you already pressed the button)? And you get... mildly inconvenienced by some honking. Yeah you shouldn't drive.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#460

Post by vitorgrs »

alephnerd wrote: post #165
notpushkin wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a Russian tourist in Vietnam can use Mir If you can find a place that actually accepts it! It’s certainly not as ubiquitous as the local Napas247 QR codes.

Yep! And Napas247 was co-developed by Vietnam and South Korea (edit: Only VN - confused Shinhan's support for development work)! The point is there is a steady decoupling towards non-Visa/MC payment systems outside the US and EU, and it wouldn't be too surprising if a number of these systems begin supporting inter-operability within the next 10 years.

Yes. As soon as June, Brazilian pix will support "Automatic Pix". Which means, basically, Pix will support subscriptions. So let's say, you authorize Netflix with pix, and then every month they will charge you with Pix automatically.

I find very likely Netflix or Amazon will be one of the first companies to support this in June now.

This was made initially to replace old school automatic debit for phone/electricity/etc bills, but it will support all services.

In Brazil, installments with credit cards are also super common... Basically when you put a credit card on any website or buy on a store, you can just choose to pay in 12x.

Well, they will add in September Pix Installments as well.

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