Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant • Hacker News Board

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#431

Post by fesoliveira » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 9:51 PM UTC

sephalon wrote: post #420

I wish more of these government-baked payment systems would just use GNU Taler [1] instead of implementing their own walled gardens. GNU Taler ensures that the paying customer is anonymous while the merchant is identified and taxable. This is great for privacy, but not very attractive for commercial companies as your revenue has to be fully based on fees instead of making extra money by selling your customers data. T…

> GNU Taler ensures that the paying customer is anonymous

This right here is the reason why governments won't use it. Governments want transactions to be traceable so that they can audit your taxes. I don't have any issues with that, I actually don't mind paying taxes, but I would never expect a government, no matter how progressive, to use a privacy-based protocol or solution.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#432

Post by m463 » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 9:53 PM UTC

SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

wikipedia doesn't say much about it.

I wonder about a few things.

Is it safe? I'm pretty sure everyone not carrying cash is very good for physical safety, but can someone be coerced into emptying their bank account at knifepoint?

Are there scams? Can stolen money be retrieved?

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#433

Post by throttlebody » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 9:53 PM UTC

welshwelsh wrote: post #342

mixmastamyk wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The govt already has full access to your bank account! Always did and KYC ended privacy. Preventing convenient payment technology only hurts the rest of us. If you want redundancy buy gold coins.

We should focus on getting rid of KYC, instead of giving up on privacy and security.

Are there any reasons we can't have both KYC and privacy/security ?

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#434

Post by owebmaster » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 9:56 PM UTC

birdflyinghigh wrote: post #425

owebmaster wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If at the same time, 2 of them would stopped, let's say for 3 weeks or maybe less, entire COUNTRY would do down the drain. In less than a week most of the country would already have migrated to a new messaging platform.

150 million users migrating to what? What messaging platform has this capacity of absorption, taking that many signups at once?

I won't include Messenger and Instagram as they are from meta so Telegram, Google Chat, TikTok, Snapchat and many more.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#435

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 9:57 PM UTC

m463 wrote: post #432

SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

wikipedia doesn't say much about it. I wonder about a few things. Is it safe? I'm pretty sure everyone not carrying cash is very good for physical safety, but can someone be coerced into emptying their bank account at knifepoint? Are there scams? Can stolen money be retrieved?

Presumably it has the same simple safeguards that a US system like Zelle or Venmo have. I needed to pay my sister-in-law $1300 the other day, and forgot that I have a $500/day transaction limit in place for such transfers, at my own choosing (setup when I opened the account).

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#436

Post by tekno45 » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 9:57 PM UTC

m463 wrote: post #432

SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

wikipedia doesn't say much about it. I wonder about a few things. Is it safe? I'm pretty sure everyone not carrying cash is very good for physical safety, but can someone be coerced into emptying their bank account at knifepoint? Are there scams? Can stolen money be retrieved?

what system protects you from being coerced at knife point?

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#437

Post by m463 » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 9:59 PM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #435

m463 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wikipedia doesn't say much about it. I wonder about a few things. Is it safe? I'm pretty sure everyone not carrying cash is very good for physical safety, but can someone be coerced into emptying their bank account at knifepoint? Are there scams? Can stolen money be retrieved?

Presumably it has the same simple safeguards that a US system like Zelle or Venmo have. I needed to pay my sister-in-law $1300 the other day, and forgot that I have a $500/day transaction limit in place for such transfers, at my own choosing (setup when I opened the account).

I thought zelle was riddled with fraud?

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#438

Post by bonestamp2 » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 10:01 PM UTC

AlienRobot wrote: post #270

SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

>Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. Until this line I forgot crypto was even competing!

Pix sounds great for most people and probably a good replacement for government issued paper notes and metal coins. But, the crypto purists like crypto that is not controlled by the government or the banks. Pix would obviously fail at attracting those crypto fans.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#439

Post by timewizard » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 10:01 PM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #378

timewizard wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you say something the government doesn't like and they decide that part of your punishment should be lack of access to payment services. I'd prefer a constitutional mandate or guarantee that this can't happen. Without it this is a noose. A convenient noose with lots of nice properties but a noose none the less.

> Until you say something the government doesn't like and they decide that part of your punishment should be lack of access to payment services. How much worse is that than the same thing happening when you do something a private company doesn't like? And how much different is that than what the Federal government could already do? If the government says you're a terrorist, you're not accessing any banking.

> when you do something a private company doesn't like?

Well, it's completely different, because ostensibly I can switch to another private company. Is there an option, ever, for me to just change which government I subscribe to?

> If the government says you're a terrorist, you're not accessing any banking.

In the US this can only be true for foreign citizens. Broad classes of assets and liquidity are well protected for US citizens unless you end up in the unusual situation where they sue the money itself. If you have cash in your hand nothing can stop you from spending it.

Thank you for introducing political relativism into this conversation, although, I'm not sure it's advanced anything in particular.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#440

Post by m463 » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 10:02 PM UTC

tekno45 wrote: post #436

m463 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wikipedia doesn't say much about it. I wonder about a few things. Is it safe? I'm pretty sure everyone not carrying cash is very good for physical safety, but can someone be coerced into emptying their bank account at knifepoint? Are there scams? Can stolen money be retrieved?

what system protects you from being coerced at knife point?

Writing a personal check? Stolen cellphone?

Cryptocurrencies are full of scams because you can't put the money back, and some are anonymous.