Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant • Hacker News Board

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#371

Post by Vilian » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 5:58 PM UTC

jowea wrote: post #251

carlosjobim wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good to hear your words loyalty and patriotism, dear citizen! I will contact your local commissar and make sure he increases your social credit score by 5 points. But we must also be realistic if we want to win against our eternal enemy Eastasia, and admit that Facebook coin would never be a monopoly because Visa, Mastercard and cash exist.

Thanks, maybe someday I will finally be promoted to Internet Shill First Class. But seriously, it would still be a monopoly on the UPI-like segment. Visa and Mastercard charge fees that make them less attractive to some users and make it harder on some users. There are good reasons Pix replaced much of physical cash use that cards didn't. And Visa and Mastercard are also American companies. Don't they sell transactio…

it's kinda funny seeing us-american always baffled that we have a somewhat functional democracy in contrast to their corporatocracy

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#372

Post by matheusmoreira » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 5:59 PM UTC

babypuncher wrote: post #338

SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

I've been saying for over a decade that crypto makes no sense for micropayments and the only reason traditional methods don't work is because they are run by rent-seeking middlemen like VISA. Watching the Indian and Brazillian governements solve this problem by by building the payment networks themselves and removing the profit incentive has felt vindicating.

> removing the profit incentive

You're far too optimistic. The current administration is trying to work itself out of a major economic crisis and there's nothing they would like more than to tax the crap out of every single Pix transaction.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#373

Post by matheusmoreira » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 6:07 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #51

pearlsontheroad wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brazil has an insane level of financial fraud and tax evasion. Pix mitigates some of that, but at the cost of privacy - something that Brazilians do not care too much about.

That’s a pretty sweeping generalization about 200M+ people!

He's not wrong though. "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" is a popular saying here. People who lived under a military dictatorship not even half a century ago will actually utter those words.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#374

Post by amelius » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 6:07 PM UTC

graemep wrote: post #348

skeletal88 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has SEPA payments. They are very fast and reliable, and separate from Swift.

I have only come across SEPA as a means of making transfers between bank accounts. Can it be used for payments too (e.g. instead of a credit card)? It is also single currency - Euro only, right? Swift is global. Dealing with many currencies and laws (e.g. countries with capital controls) is very complex.

Also, does it support micropayments?

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#375

Post by igortg » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 6:07 PM UTC

cyberclimb wrote: post #236

As a foreigner that visited Brazil for some weeks, I found the ubiquity of the PIX payment system to be a handicap for tourists visiting the country. PIX is only for locals as you need to register with a CPF (Brazil ID number which is hard and tedious to get as a tourist). I ran into many scenarios where the only option was to pay with PIX and the staff aren't used to tourists and look at you funny when you explain y…

> many scenarios where the only option was to pay with PIX

I guess you want to say "only option _beyond cash_ was Pix". Most places should accept Passport ID to replace CPF. But if you found hard to pay using credit cards, that has nothing to do with Pix...

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#376

Post by mndgs » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 6:19 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #374

graemep wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have only come across SEPA as a means of making transfers between bank accounts. Can it be used for payments too (e.g. instead of a credit card)? It is also single currency - Euro only, right? Swift is global. Dealing with many currencies and laws (e.g. countries with capital controls) is very complex.

Also, does it support micropayments?

Yes, min transfer 0.01 EUR

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#377

Post by ks2048 » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 6:21 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #354

SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

> I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. > Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. Yeah, if you enjoy having your money one hundred percent controlled by the brazilian government. I can't think of a more frightening proposition. You do realize this is the country that once suddenly confiscated everybody's money directly from their bank accounts, right? Why did they do that? Runaway inflation. Just like its…

If you're thinking worst-case scenarios - what about if the government simply puts you in a cell and beats you until you give them your crypto keys?

The only hope for any system is if the people fight to not live within these kinds of fascist states. Crypto is not some magic solution - and has a lot of downsides which are mentioned often.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#378

Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 6:23 PM UTC

timewizard wrote: post #360

nirui wrote: post #206

I'm thinking, maybe controversially, centralized national payment service like this should be government-run based on my experience with Alipay which is a digital payment service in China. Due to it's commercial origin, Alipay is filled with unwanted ads and traps. Almost every time I made a payment with it, a pop up prompts me to enlist their Ant Financial LOAN service either now, or being prompted for the same ques…

Until you say something the government doesn't like and they decide that part of your punishment should be lack of access to payment services. I'd prefer a constitutional mandate or guarantee that this can't happen. Without it this is a noose. A convenient noose with lots of nice properties but a noose none the less.

> Until you say something the government doesn't like and they decide that part of your punishment should be lack of access to payment services.

How much worse is that than the same thing happening when you do something a private company doesn't like?

And how much different is that than what the Federal government could already do? If the government says you're a terrorist, you're not accessing any banking.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#379

Post by mndgs » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 6:25 PM UTC

graemep wrote: post #348

skeletal88 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has SEPA payments. They are very fast and reliable, and separate from Swift.

I have only come across SEPA as a means of making transfers between bank accounts. Can it be used for payments too (e.g. instead of a credit card)? It is also single currency - Euro only, right? Swift is global. Dealing with many currencies and laws (e.g. countries with capital controls) is very complex.

SEPA also works for SEK now, other EU currencies are in pipeline.

Swift is just a messaging standard and a message exchange network (distributed). SEPA is that, plus a settlement system (in a nutshell). That allows for speed and much more (instant payments, request to pay, pay by phone number, credit/debit transfers, etc).

You're bound to deal with currencies once you make any kind of transaction that originates in one currency and settles (finishes) in another.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#380

Post by dyauspitr » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 6:26 PM UTC

Guestmodinfo wrote: post #80

SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

I wish we could make a comparison with Indian payment system calld UPI. I feel both are similar and I wish if we could know and compre all such govt run initiatives. UPI is Indian govt initiative and very reliable

The main difference is UPI is decentralized whereas Pix is centralized to the central bank of Brazil.