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Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

economist.com

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Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#341

Post by hcarvalhoalves »

voxleone wrote: post #225
SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

>>I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Lucky you. I've been living here since i was born. :( Pix is surreal. It was launched in the Bolsonaro (mal)administration, designed by the proverbially incompetent public work force, and is as Orwellian as can be. Its code is nowhere to be found. The funniest thing is that is has been adopted feverishly by the rabid right wing crazies, the same lot who want to dest…

Correcting the blatant misinformation about the topic:

- PIX project started in 2016, public launch in 2020

- It was not "launched" by any President; the Brazilian Central Bank is an independent authority, with it own mandate, not a branch of the executive power

- PIX was co-developed with institutions of the financial sector

- It's a protocol that participants must implement, not an app. The specification is even on GitHub. I don't know what you mean by "its code is nowhere to be found".

- The Brazilian Central Bank is acknowledged as a benchmark, rather than "proverbially incompetent public work force"

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#342

Post by welshwelsh »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #336
leereeves wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hate to see a system like that where I live, because the government will abuse it. We've already seen Canada freeze bank accounts of protestors, and US officials put protestors on the no fly list.

The govt already has full access to your bank account! Always did and KYC ended privacy. Preventing convenient payment technology only hurts the rest of us. If you want redundancy buy gold coins.

We should focus on getting rid of KYC, instead of giving up on privacy and security.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#343

Post by mulderc »

paleotrope wrote: post #334
tetris11 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the homeless in London did this, I'd happily give a few pounds here and there if it were easy to. Back when I had cash on me at all times, I would think nothing of it, just toss a coin. Now in our cashless society, I found myself at a loss to do anything about the people suffering in front of me

You could donate to your chosen homeless assistance charity and just carry cards that explain how to get assistance from the same org.

Maybe not true everywhere but in all the towns I have lived in the homeless were well aware of organizations that provide assistance. No need to carry a card about it.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#344

Post by AnAfrican »

catsma21 wrote: post #244
dormento wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brazilian here. - no card - technically not a specific app, its a payment method that any app with a checkout flow (for example) can chose to implement. - you register some id with your financial institution of choice (any of CPF - equivalent to SSN, CNPJ - for businesses, phone number, email or a randomly generated key). - keys are fully portable, as in you can revoke em or change the bank institution they're associ…

> its a bank transfer why can't we just use qr codes with ibans in that case?

Because the underlying "account" is not necessarily a Bank Account.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#345

Post by gessha »

tialaramex wrote: post #321
leereeves wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hate to see a system like that where I live, because the government will abuse it. We've already seen Canada freeze bank accounts of protestors, and US officials put protestors on the no fly list.

This doesn't make sense as a prioritization. Oh no, my government might be run by nazis -> Let's make the government services crap The nazis don't need to use your crap government services, so you're just pointlessly making things worse, this is the same delusion as "But it's illegal". Why on Earth would crooks care whether what they're doing is legal? I suggest: Oh no, my government might be run by nazis -> Ensure t…

The nuance is it does put you in a vulnerable position. It’s the financial equivalent of putting all your eggs in one basket. It looks super convenient to pay with Wechat and Pix but I can’t imagine how bad it would be if I get on the government’s bad side.

I really want a system where I can transfer money effortlessly but I also want a guarantee that I won’t be restricted access to my banking.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#346

Post by kardos »

welshwelsh wrote: post #342
mixmastamyk wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The govt already has full access to your bank account! Always did and KYC ended privacy. Preventing convenient payment technology only hurts the rest of us. If you want redundancy buy gold coins.

We should focus on getting rid of KYC, instead of giving up on privacy and security.

Indeed. KYC has a purpose though -- prevention of fraud, money laundering, etc. Getting rid of KYC without a similarly-effective solution for those things seems unlikely. Ideas?

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#347

Post by mixmastamyk »

kylebenzle wrote: post #268
SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

Love that you tell us how amazing the government run digital currency but end it with a throw away statement about how the open source version will never "stand a chance". Just like how no one uses Linux and Firefox died 20 years ago.

Cryptocurrency != OSS.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#348

Post by graemep »

skeletal88 wrote: post #339
Xunjin wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world needs to implement Pix. I truly believe that is a system which can replace SWIFT with just a intermediary, with a virtual currency that exchange rate between the 2 countries in the operation, this way the world can have a freedom outside dollar and really fast transactions.

Europe has SEPA payments. They are very fast and reliable, and separate from Swift.

I have only come across SEPA as a means of making transfers between bank accounts. Can it be used for payments too (e.g. instead of a credit card)?

It is also single currency - Euro only, right? Swift is global.

Dealing with many currencies and laws (e.g. countries with capital controls) is very complex.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#349

Post by luisrudge »

abecedarius wrote: post #337
cesarb wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there any confirmation of the persons name? Yes, and it's a small privacy leak in Pix: it shows the person's name and part of their CPF.

That doesn't sound small?

It helps to prevent scams because you know who the money is going to (not foolproof, of course). CPF in Brazil is not as fragile or sensitive as the SSN in the US. You can't easily wreck someone's life just because you know their name and CPF. CPF numbers are shared pretty much everywhere since it's a unique identification code for a single person. All businesses ask for it when they're generating invoices/receipts etc. You basically use your CPF everywhere and there's virtually no risk in sharing it. That's not to say that identity theft is not a thing in Brazil. It definitely is, however the damage is usually not as bad as the stories you hear in the US and the blame is usually put on the banks / service providers for not doing the proper KYC to verify the documents. It'll be a headache for the person, but usually something that is quickly fixed.
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