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Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

economist.com

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Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#231

Post by marcosdumay »

oulipo wrote: post #13
SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

Interestig, but this is also worrying to know that the government now knows exactly what you bought, where, when, and for how much. They can also (if there's a rogue government) create fake transactions to implicate you in things you haven't done

There's those entire thing called "laws" and "constitution" that forbids this.

And if a government decides to just ignore those, it will also have no need to watch your transactions or create fake ones.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#232

Post by lclc »

pjc50 wrote: post #126
TaurenHunter wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. ...except for inflation.

Bitcoin being down 10% in the last week doesn't promise price stability.

Bitcoin goes up and down in value, BRL (or any other government currency) only goes down compared to real goods.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#233

Post by ty6853 »

pjc50 wrote: post #139
DeathArrow wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then I would prefer to do transactions with crypto. I don't want neither a government nor corporation to peek on all my transactions.

.. so you put them on a globally visible blockchain?

Tornado cash has been delisted from OFAC, and there is also something like monero / privacy coin.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#234

Post by marcosdumay »

rpgbr wrote: post #144
souenzzo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PIX are free for persons. Companies may* pay for pix services. My bank (that is not a good bank) charges a fixed amount of 4 BRL (aprox 1 USD) per transaction (to send PIX. not to receive) PIX in "maquininhas" may cost ~1% to the seller. * may: banks are allowed to charge.

Which is way cheaper than credit/debit card charges from Visa and Mastercard.

And there's no surprise fraud claims.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#235

Post by Xunjin »

SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

The world needs to implement Pix. I truly believe that is a system which can replace SWIFT with just a intermediary, with a virtual currency that exchange rate between the 2 countries in the operation, this way the world can have a freedom outside dollar and really fast transactions.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#236

Post by cyberclimb »

As a foreigner that visited Brazil for some weeks, I found the ubiquity of the PIX payment system to be a handicap for tourists visiting the country.

PIX is only for locals as you need to register with a CPF (Brazil ID number which is hard and tedious to get as a tourist). I ran into many scenarios where the only option was to pay with PIX and the staff aren't used to tourists and look at you funny when you explain you can't use PIX.

Also beyond PIX, if you try to book buses, planes, or take out a gym membership, while you're within the country, 99% of the time it's shockingly impossible to pay without a CPF, even by credit and debit card. I've even seen this for paying the laundry machine.

I'm sure the PIX system is great for Brazilians, and it was helpful having a local friend to make payments on my behalf, but Brazil really lives in a bubble where it seems a side-effect of their system is making things actively very hard for visitors to operate within the country.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#237

Post by marcosdumay »

rebanevapustus wrote: post #99
bestouff wrote: post #5

> Pix has spiced up Brazil’s fusty banking sector, but it gives the central bank a worrying amount of power I think a largely prefer a government-run payment system than an US company monopoly.

The Brazilian government is a *very* corrupt authoritarian oligarchy. I would take any US company over that any day.

Hum, sorry, no. It's a very corrupt liberal oligarchy.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#238

Post by lucasoshiro »

dormento wrote: post #109
earnesti wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on the technicals? Is it a phone app? Does it work through QR codes or NFC? Is there a Pix "card"?

Brazilian here. - no card - technically not a specific app, its a payment method that any app with a checkout flow (for example) can chose to implement. - you register some id with your financial institution of choice (any of CPF - equivalent to SSN, CNPJ - for businesses, phone number, email or a randomly generated key). - keys are fully portable, as in you can revoke em or change the bank institution they're associ…

> you can generate a QR code on the spot so the person paying can just scan it

You can also generate a R$0,00, print it and leave to the other person input how much will be transferred.

PS: Pix is so trivial to us that only in places like HN we can see how amazing it is

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#239

Post by marcosdumay »

ave_b_2011 wrote: post #120
xinayder wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet we, a developing "third-world" country, have a better functioning payment system than the US, where it takes days, or even weeks, for a wire transfer to land, and you pay a huge amount of fees for that. Cases in point: - To transfer money to a broker, I need to pay around $5 in transfer fees via ACH or wire - I want to change the custody of my stock market assets from one broker to another, and it will cost me $7…

I don’t understand this binary. The UK was able to create a near-instant bank transfer system without monopolizing in the same way. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster_Payments It costing more for instant transfers is just a regressive tax on the working poor.

Everybody adopting an open protocol is "monopolizing" now...

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#240

Post by ty6853 »

jowea wrote: post #214
lukev wrote: post #129

Pix is super interesting. I have two questions to which Google wasn't able to provide quick answers: 1. Is there an easy way for a US resident to sign up for a Pix-enabled account (e.g. at a Brazilian bank?) 2. Can Pix be used easily for online payments? If both are true, it seems like it could be used as a drop-in replacement to crypto for small-value transactions which are currently infeasible in the US due to tran…

1. I'm not sure but I'm gonna guess no. Aren't Americans notoriously hard to offer banking services to due to anti-money laundering regulations? 2. Yes, it's quite easy Wasn't the Fed going to launch their own take on UPI with FedNow?

America via FATCA requires foreign banks to snitch out all US persons, without any warrant or accusation of crime, to the American IRS, either directly or through exchange agreement for same information through their reporting to the foreign government.

The requirements are fairly simple, but the liability is extreme so that most banks across the world generally are loathe to do this unless you have some kind of resident visa and professional+ income or a large net worth.

If the foreign (Brazilian) bank fails to do so then US cuts off their access to USD.

As a practical matter casual offshore banking for middle class or lower Americans is closed off, the message broadcast loud and clear from the government is they would prefer you to use crypto as a substitute.

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