Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant • Hacker News Board

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#121

Post by svantana » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 12:39 PM UTC

DanielHB wrote: post #55

Sweden has had a similar system for several years before PIX in Brazil. It is also integrated with the digital ID system (BankID). The main difference is that the Swedish system is ran through a private organization managed by all the major banks (and the central bank) in conjunction. So the central bank doesn't have direct access to the transaction data technically. While the Brazilian system is only interacted dire…

> the main problem really is [...] no fraud protection

It's a problem for the victims, but I don't think it's why there's a scam epidemic in Sweden - scammers don't care if you get reimbursed or not. I believe the root issue is the ease and speed of transactions - it's easy to get fooled in a moment of confusion, and before you realize what happened, the money is out of reach of the authorities - as cash, crypto or in foreign accounts.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#122

Post by DeathArrow » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 12:39 PM UTC

simgt wrote: post #31

oulipo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestig, but this is also worrying to know that the government now knows exactly what you bought, where, when, and for how much. They can also (if there's a rogue government) create fake transactions to implicate you in things you haven't done

> this is also worrying to know that the government now knows exactly what you bought, where, when, and for how much As a citizen of a still kind-of-functioning democracy, I'd happily make the trade if that means Apple, Google, Visa or Mastercard don't have the information anymore.

Then I would prefer to do transactions with crypto. I don't want neither a government nor corporation to peek on all my transactions.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#123

Post by rafaquintanilha » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 12:39 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #57

simgt wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is also worrying to know that the government now knows exactly what you bought, where, when, and for how much As a citizen of a still kind-of-functioning democracy, I'd happily make the trade if that means Apple, Google, Visa or Mastercard don't have the information anymore.

I don't think you've thought that through - fascists and communists both have more control over the institutions of democracy than they do over those companies. The banking companies generally don't want to be involved in anything ideological except moneymaking.

Correct. Moreover, when you are trapped by the government, few things work better than raising international awareness. Even if the companies ultimately comply, that is typically done loud and clear, and eventually snowball until it's unsustainable.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#124

Post by xinayder » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 12:40 PM UTC

afarah1 wrote: post #101

paintbox wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a question of national security not to let Meta eat that cake, and Brasil made the right choice. Tangentially related, I've heard talk of EU alternative to VISA and Mastercard, which I also believe is the right direction.

WhatsApp Pay is available today in Brazil. The official reason for blocking the launch was missing paperwork, but word on the street at the time was that it was to favor Pix. This is all mentioned in the Retuers article. The reasons for favoring Pix are left for one to speculate. You say national security, the other says financial surveillance and control over the population. Time will tell.

I'd much rather let the Central Bank handle my instant payments, than Meta.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#125

Post by Galatians4_16 » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 12:40 PM UTC

Despite a global move towards a cashless society, 54% of Brazilians now opt for cash withdrawals.¹

2024 has seen a surprising reversal, as cash usage makes an unexpected comeback, defying predictions that the world was moving toward a cashless society. With rising cybersecurity threats, concerns over financial privacy, and economic instability, consumers and businesses are increasingly turning back to physical currency as a preferred transaction method.²

¹) https://www.riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/brazils-shift-bac...

²) https://www.adeptswipe.com/cash-makes-a-shocking-comeback-as...

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#126

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 12:40 PM UTC

TaurenHunter wrote: post #39

SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

> Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance. ...except for inflation.

Bitcoin being down 10% in the last week doesn't promise price stability.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#127

Post by panick21_ » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 12:40 PM UTC

DanielHB wrote: post #55

Sweden has had a similar system for several years before PIX in Brazil. It is also integrated with the digital ID system (BankID). The main difference is that the Swedish system is ran through a private organization managed by all the major banks (and the central bank) in conjunction. So the central bank doesn't have direct access to the transaction data technically. While the Brazilian system is only interacted dire…

I work in Swiss banking. We also have such a system for payments. Its very popular and used by most people. I keep saying they should use it as SSO, if you can authenticate payments you damn well can authenticate login requests. It makes no sense to go to an online shop, log-in with your shop account or google, and then when you pay, authenticate the payment with TWINT. And banks could even use it to login to their e-banking. Currently literally every bank has its own 'Access' App, that is almost the same but slightly different. And to my irritatingly they don't consistently encode TWINT information the same way into the normal banking transactions.

Our developer phones have like 40 apps on them to log into different test system, its madding.

In our system the pay system is also 'half' branded so you have to download 'TWINT-' not just 'TWINT'. Making it unnecessarily confusing and its literally the same app (from a user perspective).

It seems this Bank Id is an even earlier system adopted for modern SSO use-case.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#128

Post by xinayder » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 12:42 PM UTC

kubb wrote: post #17

Sometimes there's no point in having market solutions. You need one thing that works for everyone and is free. It's cheaper and easier this way.

Fun fact, before Pix, every bank was trying out different digital wallet solutions. It was a pain to go to a store and realize they support Bank A's digital wallet, which, not surprisingly, doesn't interoperate with Bank's B.

I went to buy açai at a shop one day and didn't have cash. Only way I could pay was with Itau's iti, but I only had money in my PicPay account.

Pix was a godsend that saved us from the thousands of different, non-interoperable digital wallets the fintechs were creating.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#129

Post by lukev » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 12:42 PM UTC

Pix is super interesting. I have two questions to which Google wasn't able to provide quick answers:

1. Is there an easy way for a US resident to sign up for a Pix-enabled account (e.g. at a Brazilian bank?)

2. Can Pix be used easily for online payments?

If both are true, it seems like it could be used as a drop-in replacement to crypto for small-value transactions which are currently infeasible in the US due to transaction overhead and fees.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#130

Post by actionfromafar » Tue, Apr 08, 2025, 12:42 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #113

seszett wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parking ticket machine might make things deliberately slow because the printer needs to warm up or something. Maybe it needs up to 5 seconds to warm up if it's in deep sleep, so splitting this into three 2s periods provides the least frustrating user experience. As soon as you need to deal with real hardware things always start to get complicated.

More likely it's warming up the mobile comms state machine, without checking if it's actually needed. Unlike mobile phones which try to keep their data connection somewhat live, IoT things often drop back to the lowest state to save power (and possibly SIM cost) https://www.sharetechnote.com/html/Handbook_UMTS_RrcStateCha...

And programmed on BASIC Stamp on some godforsaken discontinued hardware. :)