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Textmate2 Goes Open Source

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Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#131

Post by petsos »

chrisrhoden wrote: post #112
ChiperSoft wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That setting only changes the ability to launch an app right after download by double clicking it. It doesn't actually prevent the program from running, you just have to take more steps to launch it the first time. However TM is being kept out of the app store for other reasons, such as it's ability to prompt for an administrator password to allow writing to protected files.

Yeah, this is not true. There is a separate setting which controls a pop-up confirming whether or not you want to run an app that you downloaded, the first time you attempt to run it. The setting referred to here actually BLOCKS the running of new non-app-store (or, by default, non-signed) applications. http://imgur.com/7bduA Apparently, you can alt-click and select open, but my gut tells me that this was an oversigh…

Your gut is wrong: http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/07/os-x-10-8/15/

Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#132

Post by ralfd »

LoonyPandora wrote: post #26
owenjones wrote: post #7

Is it wrong of me to be a little miffed that I paid $50, admittedly a long time ago, for Textmate?

I don't know how long ago you paid for it, but I paid £35 for my license 3 years and 1 day ago (August 8th, 2009) 3 years of use from a product, plus we now have the almost-guaranteed support and speedier development because of it's Open Source nature. I think it was worth the money. If you paid for it last week, I can understand frustration.

> plus we now have the almost-guaranteed support and speedier development because of it's Open Source nature

I am more pessimistic. I think the project died and open sourcing will just reanimate it to undead Zombie status.

Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#133

Post by lloeki »

LoonyPandora wrote: post #13

It doesn't appear to be a code-dump to GitHub, which would be indicative of fading interest on behalf of the original developer. The ReadMe, build process, and licensing instructions all point towards this being a well planned Open Sourcing of a product. I'm pleased with this, and hopefully it will spur development of TM2, allowing it to truly compete with the up-and-coming Sublime Text 2.

> the up-and-coming Sublime Text 2

Sublime Text 2 has been released since later this June[0]

[0] http://www.sublimetext.com/blog/articles/sublime-text-2-0-re...

Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#134

Post by sblom »

batista wrote: post #93
shurane wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if there is still enough interest in the app where people will contribute all of the community's desired changes -- I hope there is. I don't get what you mean by "if there is still enough interest". If you wanted a particular feature or change, couldn't you just fork Textmate and then implement it? That's the advantage of it going open-source. We are not at the mercy of some developers who don't think our re…

> I don't get what you mean by "if there is still enough interest". If you wanted a particular feature or change, couldn't you just fork Textmate and then implement it? No, I could not. 1) I have other things to do than building my own tools. I work creating _stuff_, not creating tools. 2) You assume I have spare time to delve into the code of a project, understand the whole structure and add a feature --which might…

If your effort spent on tools speeds up your time-to-stuff, then the assumptions embodied in 1) are invalid.

Besides, with open source you have more than just the original developer on whom you can use cash to entice him to make your favorite changes.

Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#135

Post by hyperbovine »

benihana wrote: post #128
batista wrote: post #89

If we are completely honest, Textmate was always a sub-par editor. No Vim or Emacs style brilliantness, no BBEdit style tons of features and mature engine, no IntelliJ like, er, intelligence, no ST2 comprehensiveness, etc etc. Plus, the Textmate 1.x text engine was probably a mess too -- I remember the very first versions being laggy (and that's coming from someone who doesn't find even Eclipse laggy). That he couldn…

> I don't think Textmate deserved all that success --it should have happened to a better editor. This doesn't make much sense. You say it appeared at the right time and was pretty and native on OS X. What better editors deserved the success it had that were available when TextMate was popular? Which editors were available on OS X that weren't giant IDEs or VIM and Emacs style editors that have a ridiculously steep le…

The early and enthusiastic support of DHH / the Rails community had a lot to do with the initial success of TextMate. Whether this was 'deserved' is too subjective to be worth debating. It happened, and TextMate took off as a result.

Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#136

Post by alwillis »

sovande wrote: post #80
nicholassmith wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's all in Obj-C, so either a non-OS X Obj-C compilation tool or rewrite it out all out of Obj-C. Doable, but I don't think many people will be queuing up for the task.

Browsing through the code, Objective-C seems to be used for the UI, but the guts of the code (the Frameworks directory) is in C++. I have mixed feelings about TextMate going open source. If QuickSilver is any indication, it will now definitely take forever for a new release. Dang! and I seriously don't like ST2.

Actually, Quicksilver gets updates on a regular basis; it's now 64-bit and Mountain Lion compatible: http://blog.qsapp.com/post/27968374731/mountain-lion-is-upon....

Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#137

Post by Camillo »

frou_dh wrote: post #66
emehrkay wrote: post #38

I've been using Textmate 2 for the past week or so and I still prefer 1 + missing drawer. For me, the only thing Textmate 1 is missing are split views (something 2 is missing as well). I wonder if there is still enough interest in the app where people will contribute all of the community's desired changes -- I hope there is. Am I one of the only Textmate users who feel that Sublime isn't the right "upgrade"? I much p…

I feel ST2 is healthily past "good enough" as a Mac application. For examples of punting on that responsibility completely, look at JetBrains stuff or MonoDevelop.

I really want to like ST2, because it seems to have the fastest text engine of the current crop of editors; but as a Mac application, it's just barely better than Emacs.

1) The GUI is incomplete: look at the preferences, for instance. To change a setting, you have to open the defaults settings file, find the setting you want, copy it into a different file (user settings), and change it there. Actually, I take it back: it's worse than Emacs in this regard.

2) What GUI is there often works strangely. For example, if you open a folder you get both a sidebar and a tab bar. You can put files in the tab bar by double-clicking them, or you can browse the directory in the sidebar. But if you select a file in the sidebar which is not open in a tab, you end up with a tab bar with no selected tabs, which is quite jarring, since tab bars in all other applications always have one active tab. If you only have one tab visible, it looks like it's active even if in fact you have selected some other file in the sidebar (the fact that active and inactive tabs look very similar in the default theme does not help).

3) The default theme gives you a window that is a strange mix of light gray and dark gray, with no apparent logic. It looks like parts of two different applications got mashed together. I have yet to find a theme that looks satisfying.

Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#138

Post by chipotle_coyote »

andybak wrote: post #37
SmileyKeith wrote: post #14

Well TextMate was cool while it lasted. Good thing I switched to Sublime Text 2 a week ago.

So you think open-sourcing is a death sentence? Care to share your reasons? (genuine question)

I think it's a likely death sentence, although certainly not a guaranteed one.

Clearly a lot of open source projects maintain active development for years/decades. But there aren't many success stories I can think of offhand when it comes to closed source commercial software converting to open source. The only big one that immediately comes to mind is OpenOffice, and it's a pretty unusual case -- it still had an actively-maintained proprietary commercial version developed alongside the open source version for years.

If you as an individual think having your editor be open source is critical, you weren't using TextMate anyway. If you were using TextMate, you're probably willing to pay $50-60 for a "Mac-like experience" with a closed source but extensible editor. That mostly leaves diehard TextMate 1.x users and people who would try a free TextMate for beer rather than speech reasons. I'm dubious as to whether there's a sufficiently talented and motivated subset of that group to seriously further TM's development.

Lastly, I'm not sure there's room for another "industrial strength" open source text editors. It's probably not much of an exaggeration to say that there's Emacs, Vim, jEdit for the weirdos, and Things Only Their Authors Use. And in all of the big cases, those editors are cross-platform. TM isn't and won't be for years, if ever.

Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#139

Post by evanwalsh »

lloeki wrote: post #133
LoonyPandora wrote: post #13

It doesn't appear to be a code-dump to GitHub, which would be indicative of fading interest on behalf of the original developer. The ReadMe, build process, and licensing instructions all point towards this being a well planned Open Sourcing of a product. I'm pleased with this, and hopefully it will spur development of TM2, allowing it to truly compete with the up-and-coming Sublime Text 2.

> the up-and-coming Sublime Text 2 Sublime Text 2 has been released since later this June[0] [0] http://www.sublimetext.com/blog/articles/sublime-text-2-0-re...

I think he means in terms of popularity, not release date.

Re: Textmate2 Goes Open Source

#140

Post by ralfd »

andybak wrote: post #37
SmileyKeith wrote: post #14

Well TextMate was cool while it lasted. Good thing I switched to Sublime Text 2 a week ago.

So you think open-sourcing is a death sentence? Care to share your reasons? (genuine question)

* Presumably shaky code base

* You need a leader, a figure head, to move a project along. But I think Allan Odgaard lost interest.

* Working on feature rich text editor is hard and not sexy. If it was in the long years since TM1.5 an OS project would have catched fire.

* Strong competition by existing editors like ST2 or BBedit or Textwrangler or chocolatapp.com

* Design by committee

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