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Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

economist.com

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Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#251

Post by jowea »

carlosjobim wrote: post #207
jowea wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I'm thanking the government for saving us from yet another Facebook monopoly thorough first mover advantage and network effects.

Good to hear your words loyalty and patriotism, dear citizen! I will contact your local commissar and make sure he increases your social credit score by 5 points. But we must also be realistic if we want to win against our eternal enemy Eastasia, and admit that Facebook coin would never be a monopoly because Visa, Mastercard and cash exist.

Thanks, maybe someday I will finally be promoted to Internet Shill First Class.

But seriously, it would still be a monopoly on the UPI-like segment. Visa and Mastercard charge fees that make them less attractive to some users and make it harder on some users. There are good reasons Pix replaced much of physical cash use that cards didn't. And Visa and Mastercard are also American companies. Don't they sell transaction data?

And meh, at least I can vote for my president, but not even the Facebook shareholders can vote Zuckerberg out IIRC. Although Zuck can't arrest me so I don't know.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#252

Post by marcosdumay »

Galatians4_16 wrote: post #125

Despite a global move towards a cashless society, 54% of Brazilians now opt for cash withdrawals.¹ 2024 has seen a surprising reversal, as cash usage makes an unexpected comeback , defying predictions that the world was moving toward a cashless society. With rising cybersecurity threats, concerns over financial privacy, and economic instability, consumers and businesses are increasingly turning back to physical curre…

That second link is completely wrong about Brazil though. Not uninformed, just every time Brazil is mentioned, it says the complete opposite of the reality.

And the claim in the first article is about using cash at any time. And it's by a ridiculous small margin. So in fact it's claiming that almost half of the population doesn't use cash at all.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#253

Post by owebmaster »

dormento wrote: post #109
earnesti wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on the technicals? Is it a phone app? Does it work through QR codes or NFC? Is there a Pix "card"?

Brazilian here. - no card - technically not a specific app, its a payment method that any app with a checkout flow (for example) can chose to implement. - you register some id with your financial institution of choice (any of CPF - equivalent to SSN, CNPJ - for businesses, phone number, email or a randomly generated key). - keys are fully portable, as in you can revoke em or change the bank institution they're associ…

> - no NFC (so works with any crappy phone)

It is possible to pay using NFC now

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#254

Post by lucasoshiro »

earnesti wrote: post #62
SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

Can you elaborate on the technicals? Is it a phone app? Does it work through QR codes or NFC? Is there a Pix "card"?

Pix is basically a commercial name for two services:

- SPI: responsible for the payments

- DICT: responsible for mapping keys to accounts

The API documentation of those services are available, but only banks can use them. When a person wants to send money to another, there's an option in the bank app for sending through Pix.

Then you have many options to define to whom you'll send that money:

- typing the bank account information

- using the Pix key (which can be an phone, email, CPF/CNPJ (brazillian documents) or a generated key)

- scanning a QR code

Note that the two latter options don't require the account information. That resolution is done by DICT.

After that, you type how much you'll send (sometimes the QR code already contains this information). Then it'll send through SPI.

And yeah, it's really, really fast.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#256

Post by jowea »

DanielHB wrote: post #185
panick21_ wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in Swiss banking. We also have such a system for payments. Its very popular and used by most people. I keep saying they should use it as SSO, if you can authenticate payments you damn well can authenticate login requests. It makes no sense to go to an online shop, log-in with your shop account or google, and then when you pay, authenticate the payment with TWINT. And banks could even use it to login to their e…

Yes BankID is the real MVP of digital systems, I heard some talks about the EU making one valid for the whole block. Hopefully it will fix all the countries.Everything is done through BankID in swedish-only institutions. Put house on sale? bankid. Book a doctor appointment? bankid. Login to bank? Bankid. Open bank account? bankid. Sign contracts? bankid. Heck I moved my pension (like a lot of money) to a different in…

Interestingly enough Brazil also has a system to use Bank login to authenticate on government systems.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#257

Post by Galatians4_16 »

guax wrote: post #201
Galatians4_16 wrote: post #125

Despite a global move towards a cashless society, 54% of Brazilians now opt for cash withdrawals.¹ 2024 has seen a surprising reversal, as cash usage makes an unexpected comeback , defying predictions that the world was moving toward a cashless society. With rising cybersecurity threats, concerns over financial privacy, and economic instability, consumers and businesses are increasingly turning back to physical curre…

I believe it's more related to economic crisis and informal work (tax evasion). Brazil is very cashless for normal transactions.

It's only tax evasion if the activity results reportable income. Just assuming everyone, who does not use your favourite cashless platform, is a criminal, is bad marketing.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#258

Post by burmanm »

m00dy wrote: post #37
diggan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pix can't facilitate cross-border micro payments. No reason it couldn't. Bizum (mobile payments in Spain) started with just Spain but can now be used for payments across & to/from Spain, Italy, Portugal, and Andorra. Bizum is also a member of European Mobile Payment Systems Association which I think will eventually lead to all members being able to make transfers to other members, but that might a somewhat dream ra…

there's a lot of reasons that it won't happen anytime soon. Those countries use euro as their main currency, also culturally and historically connected, which you can call them latins. Why don't you add Denmark to that group ? You can't because it will take ages :)

But for similar application, you could use MobilePay (Vipps?). That works across Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark.

So although only Finland uses Euro (and rest have their own currency), you can easily transfer money between persons using just their mobile number as an example.

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#259

Post by lucasoshiro »

voxleone wrote: post #225
SwiftyBug wrote: post #8

I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use. Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be ama…

>>I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years. Lucky you. I've been living here since i was born. :( Pix is surreal. It was launched in the Bolsonaro (mal)administration, designed by the proverbially incompetent public work force, and is as Orwellian as can be. Its code is nowhere to be found. The funniest thing is that is has been adopted feverishly by the rabid right wing crazies, the same lot who want to dest…

Bolsonaro didn't even know what Pix was:

https://exame.com/economia/questionado-por-apoiador-bolsonar...

Re: Brazil's government-run payments system has become dominant

#260

Post by ziddoap »

carlosjobim wrote: post #180
forty wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it much more worrying than having Visa being able to do that? Especially when you see how the US is going downhill, I think it'd rather take the risk of having to deal with hypothetical local fascist state.

> Is it much more worrying than having Visa being able to do that? Yes, of course it is. How could anybody think otherwise? What is the worst thing Visa can do and what is the worst thing Visa has done? What is the worst thing the government can do and what is the worst thing the government has done?

If Visa has it, the government simply needs to ask for it. There's a difference, but it's not much of one.
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