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Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

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Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#311

Post by jillesvangurp »

no-dr-onboard wrote: post #45

I keep coming back to this phrase used in this post: "it was scary". Yeah, hiring is scary. Hiring is insanely expensive on all fronts. Firing people is difficult, it's expensive and legally exposing. Hiring the wrong person, allowing them access your systems and potentially exfiltrate your IP to them is a hazardous but necessary venture. The thing is, none of these things really changed with AI. People have been lyi…

In most countries, you have trial periods where you can terminate without too much hassle. Here in Germany, that's usually six months and I know of people in pretty senior positions that got screwed over and terminated towards the end of that period.

The problem with hiring in IT is that it's a bit of a broken system. On one hand you have companies that are overly picky and are alienating good candidates with their convoluted/mildy unfair hiring processes. Being overly picky when it's hard to get good candidates to show any interest because they are in demand is of course counter productive. This has been the default for the last decades. Lots of demand, not a lot of supply of great candidates.

And then on the other hand you have the recruiter / bodies for hire market with candidates that are maybe not that great being lined up with opportunities that are a bit ambitious for their skills. There you need good filters.

I've been on both sides of the table.

My process for hiring is:

- Pre-screen CVs and look for smells (job hopping, a string of meh employers, poor technical skill match, lack of seniority, etc.). You can read a lot from a CV. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt here. But given 20 CVs, I'm not talking to 20 people.

- Quick phone interview either with myself or somebody I trust to have good judgment. This is a critical call. Mostly this is to confirm the basics line up (availability, expectations, skills).

- Interviews in person (ideally). At this point I either like the person or I really don't. Yes this is subjective. But initial impressions seem to have a strong correlation to long term outcomes. Again benefit of the doubt here. But I'm not going to pretend it's not influencing the outcome.

- Decision to proceed with negotiations or not.

Note I don't do any coding interviews whatsoever. I hate those with a passion. They don't tell me anything. I prefer portfolios (e.g. Github) or having candiates talk about something they did. I'm not going to probe them for encylopedic knowledge of algorithms, doing some shitty IQ test, or whatever.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#312

Post by khazhoux »

roenxi wrote: post #289
tuvang wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First impressions do count but I think the above poster has a point, a suit can actually harm your chances in an environment where no one wears suits.

I'd want to see some actual hard evidence before I believed that. The usual way social cues work is they are devastatingly effective even if people claim they are not. Much like how most interviewers are honestly convinced that their approach is unbiased but in practice they tend to hire people who are like themselves. My expectation is that turning up in a suit would get better results. The effect is probably smalle…

Wearing a suit to a tech interview in silicon valley would without a doubt send the signal that either (a) they have absolutely no clue about SV work culture, or (b) they’re a “look at me” guy who dresses odd on purpose

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#313

Post by dagw »

tuvang wrote: post #281
_blk wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I learned, you can also be yourself, never wear a suit on the job and still wear one for the interview. First impressions count. Once people know I can wear a suit they just don't seem to mind me in shorts anymore.. So I might have a social skill after all :D

First impressions do count but I think the above poster has a point, a suit can actually harm your chances in an environment where no one wears suits.

First impressions do count but I think the above poster has a point, a suit can actually harm your chances in an environment where no one wears suits.

There are many ways to wear a suit. If you walking in wearing a suit that doesn't fit, doesn't suite (no pun intended) you, and it obviously makes you feel uncomfortable then that could count against you. But you walk in wearing a suit that fits, makes you look good, and that you are comfortable wearing, then I have a hard time seeing how it will count against you.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#314

Post by ljm »

roenxi wrote: post #289
tuvang wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First impressions do count but I think the above poster has a point, a suit can actually harm your chances in an environment where no one wears suits.

I'd want to see some actual hard evidence before I believed that. The usual way social cues work is they are devastatingly effective even if people claim they are not. Much like how most interviewers are honestly convinced that their approach is unbiased but in practice they tend to hire people who are like themselves. My expectation is that turning up in a suit would get better results. The effect is probably smalle…

Rather than thinking about the suit itself, I’d consider the dress code or culture of the company you’re interviewing for.

Turning up in formal business wear isn’t going to be a positive social cue if everybody you interact with is dressed casually.

The social cue you’d be giving off is that you stick out like a sore thumb and probably didn’t do your research on the company before you showed up.

Literally no different than turning up to Lloyd’s of London in a Hawaiian shirt and Bermuda shorts.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#315

Post by ghaff »

baq wrote: post #271
spzb wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an arrogant, ableist thing to say. I hope you're not involved in recruitment. The world has changed. Location is not the barrier it was five years ago.

Location isn't. Verification that you aren't a North Korea agent or just plain fraud is.

Mostly the latter but still. What some people on this thread don’t get is that unless you’re a known industry luminary, companies are not going to accommodate odd preferences without a legit reason like a physical disability. The resume probably won’t even make it out of HR. One key is both the company and candidate making requirements like travel clear up front. Saves everyone a lot of time.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#316

Post by mariusor »

biztos wrote: post #302
mariusor wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demanding said proof is very illegal in multiple jurisdictions.

“Prove you’re deaf” would be a pretty rude thing to say, but you also don’t want to hire someone who’s lying about a disability. Presumably you’d do some kind of vetting before an in-person interview, and certainly before a hire. Anyway in Germany I bet there’s a Taubenausweis (Gehöhrlosigkeitsbescheinigung?) or other form of official status marker, and the employer would expect you to show it to HR.

Sorry for the snark, but yeah, I agree, human dignity and empathy have no place in the capitalist work place. You must prove you're disabled or else.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#317

Post by E_Bfx »

eikenberry wrote: post #131
PantaloonFlames wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fly where? Many companies don't have offices anymore. Presumably to meet the boss. And maybe the key people on the team.

So fly them to multiple destinations? I was hired 1 year ago and interviewed with ~14 people all living in different locations. That could be paired down, but it won't ever reach the single destination that the OP is referring to.

Yes but it only one face to face meeting is needed in the process to see if someone is using AI to answer interview. The 13 other interviews can then be online.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#318

Post by throwanem »

dagw wrote: post #313
tuvang wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First impressions do count but I think the above poster has a point, a suit can actually harm your chances in an environment where no one wears suits.

First impressions do count but I think the above poster has a point, a suit can actually harm your chances in an environment where no one wears suits. There are many ways to wear a suit. If you walking in wearing a suit that doesn't fit, doesn't suite (no pun intended) you, and it obviously makes you feel uncomfortable then that could count against you. But you walk in wearing a suit that fits, makes you look good, a…

Intimidating a potential hiring manager right up front isn't usually a great play.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#319

Post by ljm »

lurking_swe wrote: post #310
ang_cire wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they will of course favor those who they are able to effectively interact with. This is not bigotry, is it? If "those who they are able to effectively interact with" ends up meaning only people who look, act, or believe like them, then yes it absolutely is.

That’s an uncharitable interpretation. But if that is what it ends up meaning then i do agree, that’s bigotry. A more charitable interpretation might mean “the candidate is able to clearly explain (through some medium: orally, typing, etc) how their code works, and why they picked that solution. They were also able to correctly answer follow up questions”. If _that_ is what is meant, then that’s not bigotry IMO.

I wouldn't say uncharitable, just that the best-intentioned version is pretty naïve, especially in the current political climate where every effort to bring that kind of inclusivity and open-mindedness to the table is being actively regressed.

For everyone here who appreciates the effort to remove unconscious bias from these decisions as much as possible, because they genuinely want to find the most capable person for the job regardless of their personal preferences, there's still a whole world out there where that bias is not only desirable but celebrated.

Re: Interviewing a software engineer who prepared with AI

#320

Post by duggan »

coolThingsFirst wrote: post #308
dakiol wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

imho I think the pagination example alone wouldn’t get you hired even if told correctly. In over a decade of experience my “coolest experience” related to pagination is about not using LIMIT and OFFSET because it’s not performant… but that’s 101 knowledge and doesn’t sell.

What’s the better way to do pagination?

Not necessarily "better" but cursor-based pagination, for example, has a different set of trade-offs. It can be more performant, but tends to be trickier to implement.

This article looks like a decent overview: https://medium.com/better-programming/understanding-the-offs...

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