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Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

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Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#31
post #20

This problem has been solved more than a decade ago by radar sensors (standard on many mid-range cars at the time). They detect imminent collisions with almost perfect accuracy and very little false positives. Having better sensor data is always going to beat trying to massage crappy data into something useful.

Are we sure Teslas dont have radars? We know they don’t have lidars, but that’s irrelevant.

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#32
post #9

This article does not adjust for the fact that Teslas drive many more miles on Autopilot + FSD than any other brand. So it's a pretty worthless comparison.

"It’s not just that self-driving cars in general are dangerous for motorcycles, either: this problem is unique to Tesla. Not a single other automobile manufacturer or ADAS self-driving technology provider reported a single motorcycle fatality in the same time frame." Doesn't matter when mileage isn't what's being compared - it's whether or not others have caused the same problem - PERIOD.

Statistically it does matter. If FSD has a 1-in-100M miles driven chance of killing a motorcyclist, and FSD drives 10M miles a day, within 10 days it's likely to see a trend starting. Whereas XYZ other brand may have a 1-in-30M miles driven chance of killing a motorcyclist, but only drives 1M miles a day, so without adjusting, FSD is more dangerous, but in reality, XYZ is.

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#33

When I used to ride, getting rear ended at a stop was one of my biggest fears other than people blowing stop signs. I always left more space in front of me that would give me room to maneuver as I watched for the car behind me to make the stop.

Lane filtering solves this fear. Should be legal nation wide.

Lane filtering is apparently "lane splitting" at lower speeds.

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#34
post #9

This article does not adjust for the fact that Teslas drive many more miles on Autopilot + FSD than any other brand. So it's a pretty worthless comparison.

"It’s not just that self-driving cars in general are dangerous for motorcycles, either: this problem is unique to Tesla. Not a single other automobile manufacturer or ADAS self-driving technology provider reported a single motorcycle fatality in the same time frame." Doesn't matter when mileage isn't what's being compared - it's whether or not others have caused the same problem - PERIOD.

The distance driven absolutely has something to do with it. If I made my own self driving car that only drove 100 meters, then there would not be enough data to know anything.

There's definitely an issue with Tesla's approach, though.

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#35
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It’s not just that self-driving cars in general are dangerous for motorcycles, either: this problem is unique to Tesla. Not a single other automobile manufacturer or ADAS self-driving technology provider reported a single motorcycle fatality in the same time frame." Doesn't matter when mileage isn't what's being compared - it's whether or not others have caused the same problem - PERIOD.

so if the other cars have 5x less miles on autopilot compared to tesla you expect to see 0 crashes even though the probability of a crash is the same

Why are we moving the goal posts to « other manufacturers drive less miles so statistically it’s still OK to kill people »?

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#36
Everyone comparing autonomous vehicles to non autonomous vehicles and number of accidents misses one important impediment to people’s and the government’s acceptance of accidents for the former.

Currently over 40K people are killed in the US every year from automobile fatalities and people think that’s just the price we pay for driving. I am not making a value judgement about that statistic.

But if even 1 person dies because of an autonomous vehicle fatality, there are going to be investigations and experience is that the entire platform is going to be paused.

Besides who is liable for an autonomous vehicle fatality? Is Tesla going to assume liability as the “driver”? Are insurance companies?

On the other hand, Tesla is not exactly known for reliability.

https://insideevs.com/news/731559/tesla-least-reliable-used-...

And its owner is not exactly known for honesty.

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#39
post #20

This problem has been solved more than a decade ago by radar sensors (standard on many mid-range cars at the time). They detect imminent collisions with almost perfect accuracy and very little false positives. Having better sensor data is always going to beat trying to massage crappy data into something useful.

But what if you were on Ketamine and thought you could resolve it with a camera?

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#40

I don't like Tesla and the premature "FSD" announcement was a huge set back AV research. An AV without lidar killing motorcyclists is not surprising, to say the least. And this is a damning report. That said -- and I might have missed this if it was in the linked sources, I'm on mobile -- what is the breakdown of other (supposed) AVs adoption currently? What other types of crashes are there? Are these 5+ fatalities s…

“This issue is unique to Tesla. Other self-driving manufacturers have logged zero motorcycle fatalities in the same time frame” Doesnt give number of driving hours for Tesla vs others though.

Yep! And no stats at all. Pathetic article.
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