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A university president makes a case against cowardice

newyorker.com

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Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#791

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harassment can be punished by the law. So that is the "now what". No, freedom of speech doesn't mean that you can engage in serious harassment of people, their workplace, or their children or family.

The scenario being discussed is employers looking at employees’ public statements, or third parties telling employers about those public statements. I don’t think that’s anything close to harassment.

No actually. It is never just that.

The question was about "to get a social media frenzy going".

And this is never just an employer randomly looking at a tweet, for which they are almost never going to do anything about it. Most employers don't care.

Instead, the much more likely scenario is mass points of harassment, stalking, and death threats targeted at people's friends and family, when such a "social media frenzy" happens.

You cannot ignore the actual mostly likely result of your advocacy. And when you just say that this is all "free speech" you are doing disservice to the massive amount of illegal harassment that these internet mobs cause.

You do not control the mob, yet you are response for its harm anyway if you try to start one.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#792
post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't normally get into this type of political debate but ... >Should Israel be allowed to attack terrorist organizations in Palestine? yes. I think actual terrorists should be eligible for being attacked anywhere. The real question you didn't ask is who gets to label what is and is not a terrorist? Black Panthers were considered terrorists in the US in the 60s and 70s but heros to the Black community now. In the U…

That is such an unrealistic and out of touch comment that I barely know where to begin. The USA (and its allies) killed millions of enemy civilians in WWII. This was not an accident; military leaders knew exactly what they were doing and were proud of it. Strategic bombing campaigns leveled cities. Submarine forces sank unarmed merchant vessels with all hands. This was considered acceptable to win the war. Should we…

> This was considered acceptable to win the war. Should we now hold other countries to a different standard?

Yes, we saw what happened and labeled them as war crimes. We don’t consider them to be acceptable anymore.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#793
post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few issues: - "The democratically elected government of Gaza-Palestine is the Hamas" Hamas is not a democratic government, period. Elections you're talking about were almost 20 years ago. It's like calling Trumpistan 20 years from now a democracy, if Trump today declares he'll live forever, and that there will be no more elections, and enough MAGA Americans help him persevering. - Israel's struggle is the Zionist d…

The Hamas government isn't democratic, but it was democratically elected. And voters knew whom they were voting for, Hamas didn't change, they were a terrorist organization back then as well. Voters democratically elect all kinds of dictatorships. Still their fault. Indigenous people (legitimately imho) started a war over that territory and lost it. Started a few more and lost those as well, together with some neighb…

I'm pretty sure the violent colonizers who implemented a pre-meditated plan of conquest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet are those who started the war in this case. "Right of conquest" was not part of international law anymore at that time.

They did not really win either, given that indigenous people, and their descendants, did not yet settle for their complete submission. Unless you call victory as having to hide behind walls and running to shelters every once in a while, and constantly making new enemies by bombing shit out of everyone around you.

As to the fault of the voters for what happened after elections. Yeah, that's easily debatable, given the massive foreign interference into the post-election Palestine's politics and society from occupation, and third countries, and attempts to coopt oposition for violent overthrow of elected government. Also Palestinians did not vote for terrorism, but for "change and reform" at the time http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4606482.stm

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#794

Some personal highlights: "They’re excellent schools, and they have excellent scientists, and if one of Vice-President Vance’s kids is sick, he’s going to want the doctor to have gone to one of these schools; he’s not going to want them to have gone to Viktor Orbán’s university." "People have said to me, “Well, you take all that money from the government, why don’t you listen to them?” The answer is, because the mone…

> "They’re excellent schools, and they have excellent scientists, and if one of Vice-President Vance’s kids is sick, he’s going to want the doctor to have gone to one of these schools; he’s not going to want them to have gone to Viktor Orbán’s university." I'm not sure I understand. If I want a medical doctor, I'm not looking for someone based on his political views or spirited independence from the Hungarian governm…

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Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#795
post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is such an unrealistic and out of touch comment that I barely know where to begin. The USA (and its allies) killed millions of enemy civilians in WWII. This was not an accident; military leaders knew exactly what they were doing and were proud of it. Strategic bombing campaigns leveled cities. Submarine forces sank unarmed merchant vessels with all hands. This was considered acceptable to win the war. Should we…

> This was considered acceptable to win the war. Should we now hold other countries to a different standard? Yes, we saw what happened and labeled them as war crimes. We don’t consider them to be acceptable anymore.

No, we didn't label them as war crimes. None of the WWII Allied military commanders or political leaders were charged with war crimes. They are still revered as heroes today. And if we faced an existential threat we would do the same to enemy civilians again, or even more.

"Before we're through with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in hell."

-Admiral William "Bull" Halsey, Jr. 1941

I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment, but his was quite a popular opinion at the time.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#796
post #769

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money comes from the public, not the government

Can I have statistics for this? Because I always thought it was mostly from the government, not from the public.

Do you not understand that money coming from the government has been acquired from taxes, ergo the money comes from the people.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#798
post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the side that complains about A and complains about B, and complains that constant polarizing rhetoric has been ratcheting up to get us from the less bad A to the very bad B?

Ah yes, it is the left's fault the right is spiraling the country into despotism. Feeling a lot of "Why do you make them hit you?" energy in this thread.

Because it actually is, in no small part, the illiberal left's fault for going all out to emphasize identity instead of unity, dividing and polarizing the U.S. population.

The illiberal left must be held accountable for their role in the Democratic defeats of 2024, expelled and publicly repudiated, and then the Democratic Party can work on rebuilding trust with voters.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#799
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is supporting terrorist groups? Pro-Palestinian protesting is not support for terrorism.

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If that was the case the west bank would at peace, instead it's getting annexed with a pending ethnic cleaning plan.

They literally shot ambulances a few days ago on purpose:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/04/world/middleeast/gaza-isr...

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The problem with such reflexive absolutism, as I've pointed out many times, is that you end up advocating for the speech rights of people who are advocating for genocide. I shouldn't need to point out that killing people also terminates their speech rights and that advocacy of genocide is thus an attack on free speech. You do not have to defend the free speech rights of people who are themselves attacking free speech…

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