Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

rollingstone.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 223 posts

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#21

Post by yieldcrv »

milesrout wrote: post #17
hayst4ck wrote: post #11

I don't think many people have actually contemplated what absence of law, defined as rules that apply to rich and powerful people too, is like. In a world with law, there are restriction on what society's most powerful can and can't do, because there are police officers, detectives, lawyers, and judges, who all work together to make sure there are consequences for crimes. In a world without law, the only restriction…

[flagged]

No party has had 60 or more votes in the Senate for many many years. Which means nothing can pass under the goals of one party. The game is that one party says the measure being presented is unnecessary and redundant and doesnt vote in favor of that law. Rinse, repeat.

But yes, the culpability is ultimately on Congress.

Its also easy to see why it is gridlocked

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#22

Post by tdeck »

femiagbabiaka wrote: post #20
ein0p wrote: post #15

[flagged]

If the U.S. killed and imprisoned people at the rate of El Salvador, without due process and essentially at the word of mouth of random people in the community, you’d be running to the hills. Crazy that this far into Trumps disaster and people still want right wing fascist dictatorship. You might get what you want, god help us all.

Police in El Salvador start each day with a quota of people to round up and imprison without trial. If they don't meet the quota, they don't get to go home to their families.

https://apnews.com/article/nayib-bukele-san-salvador-el-arre...

https://www.hrw.org/report/2022/12/07/we-can-arrest-anyone-w...

Frankly it's shocking every time I see people praise Bukele on Hacker News.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#23

Post by hayst4ck »

fzeroracer wrote: post #18
milesrout wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> What makes you think anyone is operating other than according to law? The fact that they are not complying with the law.

The fact a Secretary of Defense (second in command of the US military) and a Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (highest ranking officer and principle military advisor) have both said he is unfit and doesn't care about the law.

Jim Mattis, a Secretary of Defense, in a letter titled "I cannot remain silent":

“Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us... We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership... We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution.” [1]

Mark Milley, a Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, spent his final days in his position making sure that the military understood that they took an oath to the constitution before president. Mark Milley in his retirement speech said:

We don't take an oath to a wannabe dictator. [2]

[1] https://archive.is/UmFxO -- https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/american-c... [2] https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/29/milley-farewell-spe...

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#24

Post by 8note »

milesrout wrote: post #17
hayst4ck wrote: post #11

I don't think many people have actually contemplated what absence of law, defined as rules that apply to rich and powerful people too, is like. In a world with law, there are restriction on what society's most powerful can and can't do, because there are police officers, detectives, lawyers, and judges, who all work together to make sure there are consequences for crimes. In a world without law, the only restriction…

[flagged]

> so they could use it as an eternal campaign issue

clarification - its the republicans that used it as a campaign issue. the dems just assumed it was settled law

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#26

Post by ForOldHack »

actionfromafar wrote: post #7
Avshalom wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The lack of criminal records does not indicate they pose a limited threat. In fact, based upon their association with Tren de Aragua, the lack of specific information about each specific individual actually highlights the risk they pose, https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article30...

The lack of evidence is evidence. Right. Also, war is peace.

"Arbeit macht frei (Work Sets You Free."

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#27

Post by nitwit005 »

milesrout wrote: post #14
Avshalom wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The lack of criminal records does not indicate they pose a limited threat. In fact, based upon their association with Tren de Aragua, the lack of specific information about each specific individual actually highlights the risk they pose, https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article30...

The powers under the Act don't specify a standard of proof required. It just says: >all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government, being of the age of fourteen years and upward, who shall be within the United States and not actually naturalized, shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured, and removed as alien enemies. The President is authorized in any such event, by his…

You skipped the bit at the front:

> Whenever there is a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion is perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States by any foreign nation or government, and the President makes public proclamation of the event

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/21

Which nation is invading us? All of them? It's extremely obvious ordinary crime wasn't what this was intended for.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#28

Post by Spooky23 »

milesrout wrote: post #14
Avshalom wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The lack of criminal records does not indicate they pose a limited threat. In fact, based upon their association with Tren de Aragua, the lack of specific information about each specific individual actually highlights the risk they pose, https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article30...

The powers under the Act don't specify a standard of proof required. It just says: >all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government, being of the age of fourteen years and upward, who shall be within the United States and not actually naturalized, shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured, and removed as alien enemies. The President is authorized in any such event, by his…

I think it’s hilarious and pathetic that you, and our government, advocating for the Alien and Sedition Acts in 2025.

You should read about the obvious problems with a circa 1798 law that was as odious and abusive then as it is today.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#29

Post by derektank »

hayst4ck wrote: post #11

I don't think many people have actually contemplated what absence of law, defined as rules that apply to rich and powerful people too, is like. In a world with law, there are restriction on what society's most powerful can and can't do, because there are police officers, detectives, lawyers, and judges, who all work together to make sure there are consequences for crimes. In a world without law, the only restriction…

I think we might also find that who is rich and powerful can easily get flipped upside down over night. Being rich is not actually all that hard when law enforcement exists to uphold private property rights. But without rule of law, everything is quite literally up for grabs and might will make right. I hope our business leaders are mulling this fact over and considering whether they have either the force of personality or the physical strength to keep what they currently have in a new regime.

Re: The 'Judicial Black Hole' of El Salvador's Prisons Is a Warning for Americans

#30

Post by morkalork »

hayst4ck wrote: post #11

I don't think many people have actually contemplated what absence of law, defined as rules that apply to rich and powerful people too, is like. In a world with law, there are restriction on what society's most powerful can and can't do, because there are police officers, detectives, lawyers, and judges, who all work together to make sure there are consequences for crimes. In a world without law, the only restriction…

Americans, not content with learning from others' mistakes, will now be learning them first hand. The horrors are just beginning.
Post reply on HN