A university president makes a case against cowardice • Hacker News Board

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#621

Post by theultdev » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 6:49 PM UTC

ziddoap wrote: post #619

theultdev wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone doxxing you and pressuring your employee to fire you because you said something they don't agree with politically is the same as you insulting your coworkers in your eyes? You don't see any discrepancy between those two scenarios? And you don't see anything wrong with the former scenario?

They didn't say it was the same. You're arguing with what you imagined they said.

They presented a strawman. I'm unravelling it.

I want to know where their values are and if they contradict.

I'm re-presenting the original scenario being discussed and the scenario they introduced.

Comparing the two while also redirecting back to the original moral dilemma.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#622

Post by steviedotboston » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 6:51 PM UTC

diggan wrote: post #470

steviedotboston wrote: post #465

The real cowardice was when student mobs took over campuses and harassed jewish students but the universities did nothing about. They hoped it would fizzle out and go away, and even though the worst of it did, it didn't go away entirely and the underlying tensions still simmered. Jewish students who were terrified to walk to class, lest they be harassed by some masked terrorist supporters, wanted to make sure the wor…

How is this connected to the submission? Or is a random tangent because the article mentions "student activism" and "Trump" in the opening? The only part mentioning anyone Jewish is: > You have prominent Jewish figures around the country who get comfortable with Trump, it seems to me, because they can say he’s fighting antisemitism: “He’s good for the Jews.” It’s pathetic. It’s a travesty of Jewish values, in my view…

The entire article is about anti-Israel student protests and how the Trump administration is punishing universities for not squelching them.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#623

Post by nielsbot » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 6:51 PM UTC

snapetom wrote: post #521

salt-thrower wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is so out of touch I can only assume it’s being made in bad faith. Many of the pro-Palestinian protesters are also Jewish. Equating all Jewish people with Israel and Zionism is insidious and misleading.

Except they're not mainstream Jewish. Jewish Voice for Peace has been linked to known terrorists and receives support from anti-Jewish interests. At best, they're "useful idiots" but more realistically they were long corrupted by anti-semitic interests. https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/jewish-voice-peac...

You can be 100% correct while not being mainstream.

And you're laundering what the linked page says--they try to paint a picture of JVP being anti-semitic, but don't specifically accuse them of that. They do call them anti-Israel and anti-Zionist but you must not conflate that with anti-Semitism.

Do you find the ADL credible anyway. Seems they themselves could be accused of anti-semitism: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5097676-elon-mus...

Saying Musk's anti-semitic behavior isn't anti-semitic is definitely stretching the truth.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#624

Post by ziddoap » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 6:51 PM UTC

theultdev wrote: post #621

ziddoap wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't say it was the same. You're arguing with what you imagined they said.

They presented a strawman. I'm unravelling it. I want to know where their values are and if they contradict. I'm re-presenting the original scenario being discussed and the scenario they introduced. Comparing the two while also redirecting back to the original moral dilemma.

Unraveling it by creating your own?

Maybe we can have a strawman party after.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#625

Post by aaronbrethorst » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 6:54 PM UTC

theultdev wrote: post #606

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I renamed my codebase's primary branch to main because someone complained. versus I was abducted by ICE agents and shipped to a supermax prison in El Salvador without due process.

[flagged]

lol, are you seriously taking JD Vance and puppy-killer Kristi Noem[1] at their word when they claim he's part of MS-13? Good lord, dude.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-trump-accidentally-...

[1] why is this relevant? Because anyone who shoots a puppy that they considered untrainable and then brags about it in their own book is a stone-cold sociopath.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#626

Post by theultdev » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 6:56 PM UTC

ziddoap wrote: post #624

theultdev wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They presented a strawman. I'm unravelling it. I want to know where their values are and if they contradict. I'm re-presenting the original scenario being discussed and the scenario they introduced. Comparing the two while also redirecting back to the original moral dilemma.

Unraveling it by creating your own? Maybe we can have a strawman party after.

[flagged]

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#627

Post by MPSFounder » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 6:56 PM UTC

necubi wrote: post #213

Oh hey, Wesleyan on HN! I’m an alumnus (matriculated a year or two after Roth became president). Wesleyan has a rich history of activism and protest, and not always entirely peaceful (Roth’s predecessor, Doug Bennet, had his office firebombed at one point). I’ve had a few opportunities to speak with Roth since the Gaza war started, and I’ve always found him particularly thoughtful about balancing freedom of expressio…

[flagged]

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#628

Post by jgalt212 » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 6:57 PM UTC

croes wrote: post #571

jgalt212 wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The answer is, because the money doesn’t come with a loyalty oath But it does come with some reasonable level of consideration and appreciation.

The government pays to get good universities which attract smart foreign who come to the US to study on these universities. Maybe the government should appreciate them not the other way around.

Yeah, I agree. The government appreciates, or should appreciate, the good uses its taxpayers' money is put towards. As to the other intractables above, appreciation and loyalty are very far from the same thing.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#629

Post by jgalt212 » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 6:59 PM UTC

dfxm12 wrote: post #565

jgalt212 wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The answer is, because the money doesn’t come with a loyalty oath But it does come with some reasonable level of consideration and appreciation.

Why do you think this?

Because it's a transcation and there are two parties to the transaction. And for these transaction to occur in a repeated fashion neither side should feel they are being taken advantage of.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#630

Post by MPSFounder » Fri, Apr 04, 2025, 6:59 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #497

g8oz wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government may be within its legal rights. As an expression of values however it's hard not to see the expulsion of these students as petty politicalized retaliation. The sort of thing you would see in an electoral autocracy as opposed to a liberal democracy.

That only Americans have the right to participate in our political system is an expression of values. And it’s entirely compatible with democracy. The citizen versus non-citizen distinction is fundamental to democracy.

It absolutely is not. And your views are very concerning. Everyone residing in the US is entitled to the ammendments. That is exactly why Guantanamo bay was formed, as a matter of fact. What makes this so much worse is these individuals were not arrested for criticizing these United States, but for criticizing a hostile foreign nation, that just so happens to be the darling of billionaires of a certain faith, who constitute an overwhelming majority in the aristocracy of the US (and have been there since around the 70s). It can in fact be traced back to AZC, when JFK forced them to register as foreign agents.