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AI 2027

ai-2027.com

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Re: AI 2027

#471
post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did we read the same article? They clearly mention, take into account and extrapolate this; LLM have first scaled via data, now it's test time compute, but recent developments (R1) clearly show this is not exhausted yet (i.e. RL on synthetically (in-silico) generated CoT) which implies scaling with compute. The authors then outline further potential (research) developments that could continue this dynamic, literally…

Well based on what I'm reading, the OP's intent is that, not all (hence 'fully') validation, if not most of, can be done in-silico. I think we all agree that and that's the major bottleneck making agents useful - you have to have human-in-the-loop to closely guardrail the whole process. Of course you can get a lot of mileage via synthetically generated CoT but does that lead to LLM speed up developing LLM is a big IF…

No, the entire point of this article is that when you get to self-improving AI, it will become generally intelligent, then you can use that to solve robotics, medicine etc. (like a generally-intelligent baby can (eventually) solve how to move boxes, assemble cars, do experiments in labs etc. - nothing special about a human baby, it's just generally intelligent).

Re: AI 2027

#472
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>History says that actually when this happens, an entire generation is yeeted on to the streets History hasnt had to contend with a birth rate of 0.7-1.6. It's kind of interesting that the elite capitalist media (economist, bloomberg, forbes, etc) is projecting a future crisis of both not enough workers and not enough jobs simultaneously.

I don't really get the American preoccupation with birth rates. We're already way overpopulated for our planet and this is showing in environmental issues, housing cost, overcrowded cities etc. It's totally a great thing if we start plateauing our population and even reduce it a bit. And no we're not going extinct. It'll just cause some temporary issues like an ageing population that has to be cared for but those iss…

We are not overpopulated.

I hate the type of people that hammer the idea that society needs to double or triple the birthrate (Elon Musk), but as it currently stands, countries like South Korea, Japan, USA, China, and Germany risk extinction or economic collapse in 4-5 generations if the birth rate doesn't rise or the way we guarantee welfare doesn't change.

Re: AI 2027

#473
post #415
post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someday we will have a machine simulate a cat, then the village idiot... This isn't how LLMs work. I think you misunderstood that argument. The simulate the brain thing isn't a "start from the beginning" argument, it's an "answer a common objection" argument. Back around 2000, when Nick Bostrom was talking about this sort of thing, computers were simply nowhere near powerful enough to come even close to being smart…

> The idea is, if we don't think of anything more efficient, we'll at least be able to simulate a cat, and then an idiot, and then Einstein, and then something smarter. And since we almost certainly will think of something more efficient than "simulate a human brain", we should expect superintelligence to come much sooner. The problem with this argument is that it's assuming that we're on a linear track to more and m…

> So let's say we continue along this trajectory and we finally have a model that can faithfully reproduce and identify every word sequence in its training data and its training data includes every word ever written up to that point. Where do we go from here?

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of the entire point of predictive models (and also of how LLMs are trained and tested).

For one thing, ability to faithfully reproduce texts is not the primary scoring metric being used for the bulk of LLM training and hasn't been for years.

But more importantly, you don't make a weather model so that it can inform you of last Tuesday's weather given information from last Monday, you use it to tell you tomorrow's weather given information from today. The totality of today's temperatures, winds, moistures, and shapes of broader climatic patterns, particulates, albedos, etc etc etc have never happened before, and yet the model tells us something true about the never-before-seen consequences of these never-before-seen conditions, because it has learned the ability to reason new conclusions from new data.

Are today's "AI" models a glorified autocomplete? Yeah, but that's what all intelligence is. The next word I type is the result of an autoregressive process occurring in my brain that produces that next choice based on the totality of previous choices and experiences, just like the Q-learners that will kick your butt in Starcraft choose the best next click based on their history of previous clicks in the game combined with things they see on the screen, and will have pretty good guesses about which clicks are the best ones even if you're playing as Zerg and they only ever trained against Terran.

A highly accurate autocomplete that is able to predict the behavior and words of a genius, when presented with never before seen evidence, will be able to make novel conclusions in exactly the same way as the human genius themselves would when shown the same new data. Autocomplete IS intelligence.

New ideas don't happen because intelligences draw them out of the aether, they happen because intelligences produce new outputs in response to stimuli, and those stimuli can be self-inputs, that's what "thinking" is.

If you still think that all today's AI hubbub is just vacuous hype around an overblown autocomplete, try going to Chatgpt right now. Click the "deep research" button, and ask it "what is the average height of the buildings in [your home neighborhood]"?, or "how many calories are in [a recipe that you just invented]", or some other inane question that nobody would have ever cared to write about ever before but is hypothetically answerable from information on the internet, and see if what you get is "just a reproduced word sequence from the training data".

Re: AI 2027

#474
I think we've actually had capable AIs for long enough now to see that this kind of exponential advance to AGI in 2 years is extremely unlikely. The AI we have today isn't radically different from the AI we had in 2023. They are much better at the thing they are good at, and there are some new capabilities that are big, but they are still fundamentally next-token predictors. They still fail at larger scope longer term tasks in mostly the same way, and they are still much worse at learning from small amounts of data than humans. Despite their ability to write decent code, we haven't seen the signs of a runaway singularity as some thought was likely.

I see people saying that these kinds of things are happening behind closed doors, but I haven't seen any convincing evidence of it, and there is enormous propensity for AI speculation to run rampant.

Re: AI 2027

#475
Putting the geopolitical discussion aside, I think the biggest question lies in how likely the *current paradigm LLM* (think of it as any SOTA stock LLM you get today, e.g., 3.7 sonnet, gemini 2.5, etc) + fine-tuning will be capable of directly contributing to LLM research in a major way.

To quote the original article,

> OpenBrain focuses on AIs that can speed up AI research. They want to win the twin arms races against China (whose leading company we’ll call “DeepCent”)16 and their US competitors. The more of their research and development (R&D) cycle they can automate, the faster they can go. So when OpenBrain finishes training Agent-1, a new model under internal development, it’s good at many things but great at helping with AI research. (footnote: It’s good at this due to a combination of explicit focus to prioritize these skills, their own extensive codebases they can draw on as particularly relevant and high-quality training data, and coding being an easy domain for procedural feedback.)

> OpenBrain continues to deploy the iteratively improving Agent-1 internally for AI R&D. Overall, they are making algorithmic progress 50% faster than they would without AI assistants—and more importantly, faster than their competitors.

> what do we mean by 50% faster algorithmic progress? We mean that OpenBrain makes as much AI research progress in 1 week with AI as they would in 1.5 weeks without AI usage.

> AI progress can be broken down into 2 components:

> Increasing compute: More computational power is used to train or run an AI. This produces more powerful AIs, but they cost more.

> Improved algorithms: Better training methods are used to translate compute into performance. This produces more capable AIs without a corresponding increase in cost, or the same capabilities with decreased costs.

> This includes being able to achieve qualitatively and quantitatively new results. “Paradigm shifts” such as the switch from game-playing RL agents to large language models count as examples of algorithmic progress.

> Here we are only referring to (2), improved algorithms, which makes up about half of current AI progress.

---

Given that the article chose a pretty aggressive timeline (the algo needs to contribute late this year so that its research result can be contributed to the next gen LLM coming out early next year), the AI that can contribute significantly to research has to be a current SOTA LLM.

Now, using LLM in day-to-day engineering task is no secret in major AI labs, but we're talking about something different, something that gives you 2 extra days of output per week. I have no evidence to either acknowledge or deny whether such AI exists, and it would be outright ignorant to think no one ever came up with such an idea or is trying such an idea. So I think it goes down into two possibilities:

1. This claim is made by a top-down approach, that is, if AI reaches superhuman in 2027, what would be the most likely starting condition to that? And the author picks this as the most likely starting point, since the authors don't work in major AI lab (even if they do they can't just leak such trade secret), the authors just assume it's likely to happen anyway (and you can't dismiss that). 2. This claim is made by a bottom-up approach, that is the author did witness such AI exists to a certain extent and start to extrapolate from there.

Re: AI 2027

#476

I think we've actually had capable AIs for long enough now to see that this kind of exponential advance to AGI in 2 years is extremely unlikely. The AI we have today isn't radically different from the AI we had in 2023. They are much better at the thing they are good at, and there are some new capabilities that are big, but they are still fundamentally next-token predictors. They still fail at larger scope longer ter…

Disagree. We know it _can_ learn out of distribution capabilities based on similarities to other distributions. Like the TikZ Unicorn[1] (which was not in training data anywhere) or my code (which has variable names and methods/ideas probably not seen 1:1 in training).

IMO this out of distribution learning is all we need to scale to AGI. Sure there are still issues, it doesn't always know which distribution to pick from. Neither do we, hence car crashes.

[1]: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2303.12712 or on YT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbIk7-JPB2c

Re: AI 2027

#478
post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well based on what I'm reading, the OP's intent is that, not all (hence 'fully') validation, if not most of, can be done in-silico. I think we all agree that and that's the major bottleneck making agents useful - you have to have human-in-the-loop to closely guardrail the whole process. Of course you can get a lot of mileage via synthetically generated CoT but does that lead to LLM speed up developing LLM is a big IF…

No, the entire point of this article is that when you get to self-improving AI, it will become generally intelligent, then you can use that to solve robotics, medicine etc. (like a generally-intelligent baby can (eventually) solve how to move boxes, assemble cars, do experiments in labs etc. - nothing special about a human baby, it's just generally intelligent).

Not only does the article claim that when we get to self-improving ai it becomes generally intelligent, it's assuming that AI is pretty close right now:

> OpenBrain focuses on AIs that can speed up AI research. They want to win the twin arms races against China (whose leading company we’ll call “DeepCent”)16 and their US competitors. The more of their research and development (R&D) cycle they can automate, the faster they can go. So when OpenBrain finishes training Agent-1, a new model under internal development, it’s good at many things but great at helping with AI research.

> It’s good at this due to a combination of explicit focus to prioritize these skills, their own extensive codebases they can draw on as particularly relevant and high-quality training data, and coding being an easy domain for procedural feedback.

> OpenBrain continues to deploy the iteratively improving Agent-1 internally for AI R&D. Overall, they are making algorithmic progress 50% faster than they would without AI assistants—and more importantly, faster than their competitors.

> what do we mean by 50% faster algorithmic progress? We mean that OpenBrain makes as much AI research progress in 1 week with AI as they would in 1.5 weeks without AI usage.

To me, claiming today's AI IS capable of such thing is too hand-wavy. And I think that's the crux of the article.

Re: AI 2027

#479
Very detailed effort. Predicting future is very very hard. My gut feeling however says that none of this is happening. You cannot put LLMs into law and insurance and I don't see that happening with current foundations (token probabilities) of AI let alone AGI.

By law and insurance - I mean hire an insurance agent or a lawyer. Give them your situation. There's almost no chance that such a professional would come wrong about any conclusions/recommendations based on the information you provide.

I don't have that confidence in LLMs for that industries. Yet. Or even in a decade.

Re: AI 2027

#480
post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well based on what I'm reading, the OP's intent is that, not all (hence 'fully') validation, if not most of, can be done in-silico. I think we all agree that and that's the major bottleneck making agents useful - you have to have human-in-the-loop to closely guardrail the whole process. Of course you can get a lot of mileage via synthetically generated CoT but does that lead to LLM speed up developing LLM is a big IF…

No, the entire point of this article is that when you get to self-improving AI, it will become generally intelligent, then you can use that to solve robotics, medicine etc. (like a generally-intelligent baby can (eventually) solve how to move boxes, assemble cars, do experiments in labs etc. - nothing special about a human baby, it's just generally intelligent).

You had me at "nothing special about a human baby"
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