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A university president makes a case against cowardice

newyorker.com

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Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#441

Post by lelanthran »

freejazz wrote: post #227
Aunche wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of your stance on affirmative action, it should be very suspicious that all prestigious universities implemented it until it was banned while support in the general population is mixed.

I'm not sure how that follows. Do elite universities typically track the general population?

> I'm not sure how that follows. Do elite universities typically track the general population?

He's saying that the universities are out of touch with the general population, which is never a good thing.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#442

Post by lupusreal »

brightlancer wrote: post #438
necubi wrote: post #213

Oh hey, Wesleyan on HN! I’m an alumnus (matriculated a year or two after Roth became president). Wesleyan has a rich history of activism and protest, and not always entirely peaceful (Roth’s predecessor, Doug Bennet, had his office firebombed at one point). I’ve had a few opportunities to speak with Roth since the Gaza war started, and I’ve always found him particularly thoughtful about balancing freedom of expressio…

> Wesleyan has a rich history of activism and protest, and not always entirely peaceful (Roth’s predecessor, Doug Bennet, had his office firebombed at one point). Arson is not protest. Arson is a VIOLENT type of activism, which is legally classified as terrorism. Trump (or anybody) shouldn't be allowed to punish folks for speech or peaceful protest. Unfortunately, folks are calling VIOLENT acts like arson and battery…

Just so. The First Amendment assures the right to peacefully assemble and speak your mind, not to commit arson. Violent attacks aren't free speech and should always be prosecuted.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#443

Post by mpweiher »

immibis wrote: post #356
_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many countries completely ban non citizens from joining political protests, even ostensibly western countries. Which ones?

Germany bans pro-Palestine protests (officially they're still legal, but they've been arresting people since it began and they've just started deporting people for participating in completely legal protests) but I think that's a slightly different criterion than the one you asked for.

No. What is not allowed is calls for genocide ("From the river to the sea") and support for terrorist organizations.

And yes, if you are a guest in a country, supporting genocide and terrorism can get you deported.

But the police has been extremely lax in enforcement. These protests still basically always have these characteristics and there is no action by the police.

It is pathetic.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#444

Post by throw10920 »

jquery wrote: post #437
throw10920 wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while the present behavior of the illiberal right is abductions and overseas slave camps Can you provide examples of people getting abducted and sent to "overseas slave camps" purely for their speech?

Took me all of 5 seconds to find an example. Tattoos are a form of protected speech: https://archive.is/2025.04.03-041258/https://www.theatlantic...

[flagged]

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#445

Post by pclmulqdq »

rayiner wrote: post #435
pclmulqdq wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure there's technically a due process right in the case of immigration visa revocation and the ensuing deportation. There is a due process right in the case of crimes, but getting your visa revoked is not a crime. The best argument I have heard is that visa revocation may be like firing: the US can do it for almost any reason and you can fire someone for no reason, but can't do it for specific prohibited re…

> The best argument I have heard is that visa revocation may be like firing: the US can do it for almost any reason and you can fire someone for no reason, but can't do it for specific prohibited reasons. Speech would probably be one of those bad reasons under the US's civil rights framework. No, the U.S. has the prerogative to pick and choose foreigners who are allowed to immigrate based on categories that would be…

I think the real argument here is a constitutional one about that statute, not about the statute itself. It is unlikely, though, that the supreme court would reverse its stance here.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#446

Post by ceejayoz »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #440
squigz wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I just live in a bubble, but I don't think "the left" has acted as strongly against churches as "the right" has against schools.

[flagged]

> Universities today, though, have a status that religious organizations have never reached. Not only being tax free but also heavily taxpayer-funded, and with a university credential being virtually required for most jobs.

It's almost like they produce something of actual value.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#447

Post by mpweiher »

3D30497420 wrote: post #366
immibis wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany bans pro-Palestine protests (officially they're still legal, but they've been arresting people since it began and they've just started deporting people for participating in completely legal protests) but I think that's a slightly different criterion than the one you asked for.

Correct. Here's a DW video on it: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-deport-pro-palestinian-prot... There is a fight over this being done with or without due process.

Incorrect:

"They are accused of indirectly supporting Hamas, which is designated as a terrorist organization in Germany."

2nd sentence from your link.

Supporting terrorist organizations is not legal in Germany. Supporting terrorist organizations is not the same a being Pro-Palestinian. Unless you think that all Palestinians are terrorists, which I do not.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#448

Post by tome »

kitd wrote: post #426
adhamsalama wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supporting Palestinians that Israel has been killing for over a year (+50k killed, most were women and children), while starving the rest and ethnically cleansing them, is not supporting terrorism.

Too many have been killed, for sure, but you should probably use sources other than the Hamas Health Ministry: https://www.euronews.com/2025/04/03/hamas-run-health-ministr...

>Too many have been killed

How many killed would have been "not too many"?

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#449

Post by squigz »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #440
squigz wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I just live in a bubble, but I don't think "the left" has acted as strongly against churches as "the right" has against schools.

[flagged]

This is a conversation about American politics, so I don't think how other countries acted is relevant.

The political landscape also changes regularly - I don't think the Republicans of a few decades ago were attacking schools so vigorously, so I'm not sure going further back than that for examples is relevant either.

> efforts of left-wing people in the 60's-90's to reduce their influence on society.

Can you elaborate on this?

> Universities today, though, have a status that religious organizations have never reached. Not only being tax free but also heavily taxpayer-funded, and with a university credential being virtually required for most jobs.

I suspect that if you go back not even that long ago, you'd find religious institutions having nearly as much importance, particularly in how faiths would prevent others from joining the workforce or society itself. In any case, I wonder what % of jobs actually do require a university education these days. I would not expect a majority of them to, but maybe I'm wrong.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#450

Post by antifa »

mmooss wrote: post #289
antifa wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody knows you're a Christian or right winger at a university until you open your mouth to let all the women and LGBT people know that you think they don't deserve rights, and it's not discrimination when people don't like you for being an asshole. The vast majority of Christians go to college, don't get mad that LGBT and non-Christians exist, and didn't get discriminated against. The absolute narcissism on display…

Not all conservative Christians and right wingers think "women and LGBT people ... don't deserve rights". I find that if I approach people that way, it brings out the worst in them - they feel cornered and they fight. There's not much room for discussion when someone dismisses 'crazy antifa terrorists'. Are you going to reason with them? It destroys social trust, which is what the real radicals aim at. If you want to…

> Not all conservative Christians and right wingers think "women and LGBT people ... don't deserve rights

Weird how those specific Christians who think women and LGBT are people don't feel discriminated against.

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