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A university president makes a case against cowardice

newyorker.com

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Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#421

Post by [deleted] »

xracy wrote: post #296
zdragnar wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't really just hire some, though. You need to hire enough so that they don't get run out of the school for thought crime https://www.thedoe.com/article/conservative-college-professo...

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-coddling-of-the-am... A lot of these examples have been pretty thoroughly debunked as either non-existent, or about something other than the professors expressing "conservative views". This one is, I assume intentionally, anonymized and so we can't actually verify that it happened or what the circumstances around it were. But I'll call out one of the most common "views" I've…

[deleted]

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#422

Post by UncleSlacky »

vixen99 wrote: post #406
worik wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The subjects of His Majesty have never been free

Technically we're subjects but the King has zero executive powers. His soft powers are perhaps another topic. Point being we're in effect, citizens and subject to the (very variable) laws of the country like any other country. Currently freedom of expression in the UK is highly problematic but that's a temporary issue with the current administration. No subjects or citizens in any country are ever free as in free bee…

There are very very few people who can be classed as "British subjects", the vast majority are British citizens since at least 1983.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_subject :

"Currently, it refers to people possessing a class of British nationality largely granted under limited circumstances to those connected with Ireland or British India born before 1949. Individuals with this nationality are British nationals and Commonwealth citizens, but not British citizens."

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#423

Post by lelanthran »

ytpete wrote: post #349
lelanthran wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freedom of speech necessarily implies that a group of people might team up and loudly announce that the people they don't agree with are incorrect and immoral and should be ignored or even ostracized. That's the price of freedom of speech, and it's a fair price. Sure, agreed. But groups and institutions taking even a dime of tax money should not get to place a thumb on the scales of those arguments. US universities…

What did US universities do to "silence all opposing viewpoints" on any issues? Did they kick students out of school because of their viewports? Claw back their financial aid? Get them deported? Physically harm them? I sure don't remember things like that happening in widespread manner to conservative students, let alone happening in a way that was organized top-down by the universities' leadership.

I want to assume you are asking in good faith and really aren't aware of academic administration's attempts to silence specific and common viewpoints.

Your comment surprises me, because at this point, there really isn't any contention over the fact that universities have been doing exactly this.

So while I am assuming that you don't actually know, I'll give you a short list of links (I'm not doing research that takes me more than 5m).

> What did US universities do to "silence all opposing viewpoints" on any issues?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/musbahshaheen/2024/06/05/stop-r...

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/blog/diversity-statemen...

https://www.thefire.org/news/anti-free-speech-trends-campus-...

https://www.thefire.org/facultyreport

https://www.hrdive.com/news/stop-requiring-diversity-stateme...

(UK, but still the same idea) https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/kathleen-stock...

https://www.thefire.org/news/speaker-disinvited-uncomfortabl...

https://www.businessinsider.com/list-of-disinvited-speakers-...

And, finally, some charts: https://www.thefire.org/news/blogs/eternally-radical-idea/ne...

    Analysis of the data FIRE has collected reveals a clear political trend in the likelihood that a speaker will be targeted with a disinvitation effort. Speakers are far more likely to face disinvitation efforts from opponents to their political left than from those to their right. Since 2000, those behind the disinvitation efforts targeted speakers with views more conservative than their own nearly three times more frequently (97 attempts) than they targeted speakers with views more liberal than their own (36 attempts).
The takeaway is that the right-leaning students and administration are far far more tolerant of speech from the left, than the left-leaning students and administration are of speech from the right.

It pains me to say it, but it aligns with my experience.

> Did they kick students out of school because of their viewports? Claw back their financial aid? Get them deported? Physically harm them?

None of that is required to silence opposing views.

> I sure don't remember things like that happening in widespread manner to conservative students, let alone happening in a way that was organized top-down by the universities' leadership.

"Allowing only one viewpoint" doesn't require that the university administration has a top-down directive to expel students, only that they allow one viewpoint and silence the other.

Once again, that this happened is not in dispute, so I am left wondering where you were going with this response.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#425

Post by low_tech_love »

Some personal highlights:

"They’re excellent schools, and they have excellent scientists, and if one of Vice-President Vance’s kids is sick, he’s going to want the doctor to have gone to one of these schools; he’s not going to want them to have gone to Viktor Orbán’s university."

"People have said to me, “Well, you take all that money from the government, why don’t you listen to them?” The answer is, because the money doesn’t come with a loyalty oath."

"I don’t have to agree with the mayor to get the fire department to come put out a fire. And that’s what they’re saying to these international students: “Well, you came to this country. What makes you think you can write an op-ed in the newspaper?” Well, what makes you think that is, this is a free country. "

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#426

Post by kitd »

adhamsalama wrote: post #380
mlindner wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Supporting Palestinians that Israel has been killing for over a year (+50k killed, most were women and children), while starving the rest and ethnically cleansing them, is not supporting terrorism.

Too many have been killed, for sure, but you should probably use sources other than the Hamas Health Ministry:

https://www.euronews.com/2025/04/03/hamas-run-health-ministr...

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#427

Post by pclmulqdq »

mistersquid wrote: post #419
rayiner wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> The US has the prerogative to filter immigrants based on their views and affiliations. What comes before “filter[ing] immigrants” is due process. Resident aliens have the right to due process which the current US administration is not providing. Alien residents with every right to be here are being removed from the US illegally and mistakenly.

I am not sure there's technically a due process right in the case of immigration visa revocation and the ensuing deportation. There is a due process right in the case of crimes, but getting your visa revoked is not a crime.

The best argument I have heard is that visa revocation may be like firing: the US can do it for almost any reason and you can fire someone for no reason, but can't do it for specific prohibited reasons. Speech would probably be one of those bad reasons under the US's civil rights framework.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#428

Post by throw10920 »

kevingadd wrote: post #323
decimalenough wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

> while the present behavior of the illiberal right is abductions and overseas slave camps

Can you provide examples of people getting abducted and sent to "overseas slave camps" purely for their speech?

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#429

Post by pclmulqdq »

vkou wrote: post #389
robertlagrant wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One ban consists of the exercise of their right to... Not associate with you. Many people have been fired / expelled / and many more silenced by those examples. If you can't tell the truth about your side (from how you're writing I assume you think in sides) then there's no point saying it. > The other sends you to a Salvadoran gulag. (The silence from all the 'free speech' folks on this point is deafening.) I have…

If the past decade is any indication, nothing has stopped the long list of cancelled right wing grifters, racists, and various other flavors of fools and bigots from finding gainful employment and signal boosting and platforming among like-minded people who do exercise their right to associate with them, despite their behavior. For (allegedly) being so persecuted and silenced, it's weird how so many of them have so m…

In the past decade, the left got so cancel-happy that "cancellation" by the left-wing activist crowd lost pretty much all of its weight among anyone who isn't an ideologue. In 2016-2018, if you got canceled, you would have a very hard time finding any white-collar job afterward.

Re: A university president makes a case against cowardice

#430

Post by altacc »

trentnix wrote: post #235

If you don’t want to be subject to the whims of whoever is in office, don’t take the poison pill of government money.

If only politics was limited to affecting those who opted in. But mostly government shouldn't be the whims of one individual, it should be much more considered than that.
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