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AI 2027

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Re: AI 2027

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The story is very clearly modeled to follow the exponential curve they show. Like the drew the curve out into the shape they wanted, put some milestones on it, and then went to work imagining what would happen if it continued with a heavy dose of X-risk doomerism to keep it spicy. It conveniently ignores all of the physical constraints around things like manufacturing GPUs and scaling training networks.

https://ai-2027.com/research/compute-forecast In section 4 they discuss their projections specifically for model size, the state of inference chips in 2027, etc. It's largely pretty in line with expectations in terms of the capacity, and they only project them using 10k of their latest gen wafer scale inference chips by late 2027, roughly like 1M H100 equivalents. That doesn't seem at all impossible. They also earlie…

I don’t believe so. I think all important parts that each need to be scaled to advance significantly in the LLM paradigm are at or near the end of the steep part of the sigmoid:

1) useful training data available in the internet 2) number of humans creating more training data ”manually” 3) parameter scaling 4) ”easy” algorithmic inventions 5) available+buildable compute

”Just” needing a few more algorithmic inventions to keep the graphs exponential is a cop out. It is already obvious that just scaling parameters and compute is not enough.

I personally predict that scaling LLMs for solving all physical tasks (eg cleaning robots) or intellectual pursuits (they suck at multiplication) will not work out.

We will get better specialized tools by collecting data from specific, high economic value, constrained tasks, and automating them, but scaling a (multimodal) LLM to solve everything in a single model will not be economically viable. We will get more natural interfaces for many tasks.

This is how I think right now as a ML researcher, will be interesting to see how wrong was I in 2 years.

EDIT: addition about latest algorithmic advances:

- Deepseek style GRPO requires a ladder of scored problems progressively more difficult and appropriate to get useful gradients. For open-ended problems (like most interesting ones are) we have no ladders for, and it doesn’t work. In particular, learning to generate code for leetcode problems with a good number of well made unit tests is what it is good for.

- Test-time inference is just adding an insane amount of more compute after training to brute-force double-check the sanity of answers

Neither will keep the graphs exponential.

Re: AI 2027

#362

It’s good science fiction, I’ll give it that. I think getting lost in the weeds over technicalities ignores the crux of the narrative: even if this doesn’t lead to AGI, at the very least it’s likely the final “warning shot” we’ll get before it’s suddenly and irreversibly here. The problems it raises - alignment, geopolitics, lack of societal safeguards - are all real, and happening now (just replace “AGI” with “corpo…

> very real risk of societal collapse or species extinction No, there is no risk of species extinction in the near future due to climate change and repeating the line will just further the divide and make the people not care about other people's and even real climate scientist's words.

The risk is a quantifiable 0.0%? I find that hard to believe. I think the current trends suggest there is a risk that continued environmental destruction could annihilate society.

Re: AI 2027

#363

It’s good science fiction, I’ll give it that. I think getting lost in the weeds over technicalities ignores the crux of the narrative: even if this doesn’t lead to AGI, at the very least it’s likely the final “warning shot” we’ll get before it’s suddenly and irreversibly here. The problems it raises - alignment, geopolitics, lack of societal safeguards - are all real, and happening now (just replace “AGI” with “corpo…

You don’t just beat around the bush here. You actually beat the bush a few times.

Large corporations, governments, institutionalized churches, political parties, and other “corporate” institutions are very much like a hypothetical AGI in many ways: they are immortal, sleepless, distributed, omnipresent, and possess beyond human levels of combined intelligence, wealth, and power. They are mechanical Turk AGIs more or less. Look at how humans cycle in, out, and through them, often without changing them much, because they have an existence and a weird kind of will independent of their members.

A whole lot, perhaps all, of what we need to do to prepare for a hypothetical AGI that may or may not be aligned consists of things we should be doing to restrain and ensure alignment of the mechanical Turk variety. If we can’t do that we have no chance against something faster and smarter.

What we have done over the past 50 years is the opposite: not just unchain them but drop any notion that they should be aligned.

Are we sure the AI alignment discourse isn’t just “occulted” progressive political discourse? Back when they burned witches philosophers would encrypt possibly heretical ideas in the form of impenetrable nonsense, which is where what we call occultism comes from. You don’t get burned for suggesting steps to align corporate power, but a huge effort has been made to marginalize such discourse.

Consider a potential future AGI. Imagine it has a cult of followers around it, which it probably would, and champions that act like present day politicians or CEOs for it, which it probably would. If it did not get humans to do these things for it, it would have analogous functions or parts of itself.

Now consider a corporation or other corporate entity that has all those things but replace the AGI digital brain with a committee or shareholders.

What, really, is the difference? Both can be dangerously unaligned.

Other than perhaps in magnitude? The real digital AGI might be smarter and faster but that’s the only difference I see.

Re: AI 2027

#364
Though it's easy to dismiss as science fiction, this timeline paints a chillingly detailed picture of a potential AGI takeoff. The idea that AI could surpass human capabilities in research and development, and the fact that it will create an arms race between global powers, is unsettling. The risks—AI misuse, security breaches, and societal disruption—are very real, even if the exact timeline might be too optimistic.

But the real concern lies in what happens if we’re wrong and AGI does surpass us. If AI accelerates progress so fast that humans can no longer meaningfully contribute, where does that leave us?

Re: AI 2027

#365
post #363

It’s good science fiction, I’ll give it that. I think getting lost in the weeds over technicalities ignores the crux of the narrative: even if this doesn’t lead to AGI, at the very least it’s likely the final “warning shot” we’ll get before it’s suddenly and irreversibly here. The problems it raises - alignment, geopolitics, lack of societal safeguards - are all real, and happening now (just replace “AGI” with “corpo…

You don’t just beat around the bush here. You actually beat the bush a few times. Large corporations, governments, institutionalized churches, political parties, and other “corporate” institutions are very much like a hypothetical AGI in many ways: they are immortal, sleepless, distributed, omnipresent, and possess beyond human levels of combined intelligence, wealth, and power. They are mechanical Turk AGIs more or…

I looked but I couldn’t find any evidence that “occultism” comes from encryption of heretical ideas. It seems to have been popularized in renaissance France to describe the study of hidden forces. I think you may be hallucinating here.

Re: AI 2027

#366

It’s good science fiction, I’ll give it that. I think getting lost in the weeds over technicalities ignores the crux of the narrative: even if this doesn’t lead to AGI, at the very least it’s likely the final “warning shot” we’ll get before it’s suddenly and irreversibly here. The problems it raises - alignment, geopolitics, lack of societal safeguards - are all real, and happening now (just replace “AGI” with “corpo…

> even if this doesn’t lead to AGI, at the very least it’s likely the final “warning shot” we’ll get before it’s suddenly and irreversibly here.

I agree that it's good science fiction, but this is still taking it too seriously. All of these "projections" are generalizing from fictional evidence - to borrow a term that's popular in communities that push these ideas.

Long before we had deep learning there were people like Nick Bostrom who were pushing this intelligence explosion narrative. The arguments back then went something like this: "Machines will be able to simulate brains at higher and higher fidelity. Someday we will have a machine simulate a cat, then the village idiot, but then the difference between the village idiot and Einstein is much less than the difference between a cat and the village idiot. Therefore accelerating growth[...]" The fictional part here is the whole brain simulation part, or, for that matter, any sort of biological analogue. This isn't how LLMs work.

We never got a machine as smart as a cat. We got multi-paragraph autocomplete as "smart" as the average person on the internet. Now, after some more years of work, we have multi-paragraph autocomplete that's as "smart" as a smart person on the internet. This is an imperfect analogy, but the point is that there is no indication that this process is self-improving. In fact, it's the opposite. All the scaling laws we have show that progress slows down as you add more resources. There is no evidence or argument for exponential growth. Whenever a new technology is first put into production (and receives massive investments) there is an initial period of rapid gains. That's not surprising. There are always low-hanging fruit.

We got some new, genuinely useful tools over the last few years, but this narrative that AGI is just around the corner needs to die. It is science fiction and leads people to make bad decisions based on fictional evidence. I'm personally frustrated whenever this comes up, because there are exciting applications which will end up underfunded after the current AI bubble bursts...

Re: AI 2027

#367
post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t just beat around the bush here. You actually beat the bush a few times. Large corporations, governments, institutionalized churches, political parties, and other “corporate” institutions are very much like a hypothetical AGI in many ways: they are immortal, sleepless, distributed, omnipresent, and possess beyond human levels of combined intelligence, wealth, and power. They are mechanical Turk AGIs more or…

I looked but I couldn’t find any evidence that “occultism” comes from encryption of heretical ideas. It seems to have been popularized in renaissance France to describe the study of hidden forces. I think you may be hallucinating here.

Where exactly did you look?

Re: AI 2027

#368

It’s good science fiction, I’ll give it that. I think getting lost in the weeds over technicalities ignores the crux of the narrative: even if this doesn’t lead to AGI, at the very least it’s likely the final “warning shot” we’ll get before it’s suddenly and irreversibly here. The problems it raises - alignment, geopolitics, lack of societal safeguards - are all real, and happening now (just replace “AGI” with “corpo…

Whatever the future is, it is not American, not the United States. The US's cultural individualism has been Capitalistically weaponized, and the educational foundation to take the country forward is not there. The US is kaput, and we are merely observing the ugly demise. The future is Asia, with all of western culture going down. Yes, it is not pretty, The failed experiment of American self rule.

I agree but see it as less dire. All of western culture is not ending; it will be absorbed into a more Asia-dominated culture in much he was Asian culture was subsumed into western for the past couple of hundred years.

And if Asian culture is better educated and more capable of progress, that’s a good thing. Certainly the US has announced loud and clear that this is the end of the line for us.

Re: AI 2027

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> very real risk of societal collapse or species extinction No, there is no risk of species extinction in the near future due to climate change and repeating the line will just further the divide and make the people not care about other people's and even real climate scientist's words.

The risk is a quantifiable 0.0%? I find that hard to believe. I think the current trends suggest there is a risk that continued environmental destruction could annihilate society.

Risk can never be zero, just like certainty can never be 100%.

There is a non-zero chance that the ineffable quantum foam will cause a mature hippopotamus to materialize above your bed tonight, and you’ll be crushed. It is incredibly, amazingly, limits-of-math unlikely. Still a non-zero risk.

Better to think of “no risk” as meaning “negligible risk”. But I’m with you that climate change is not a negligible risk; maybe way up in the 20% range IMO. And I wouldn’t be sleeping in my bed tonight if sudden hippos over beds were 20% risks.

Re: AI 2027

#370
post #325
post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you put a knife in someone’s heart, you’re the one who did it and ultimately you’re responsible. If someone told you to do it and you were just following orders… you still did it. If you say there were no rules against putting knives in other people’s hearts, you still did it and you’re still responsible. If it’s somehow different for corporations, please enlighten me how.

The oil companies are saying their product is vital to the economy and they are not wrong. How else will we get food from the farms to the store ? Ambulances to the hospitals ? And many, many other things. Taxes are the best way to change behaviour (smaller cars driving less. Less flying etc). So government and the people who vote for them is to blame.

The oil companies also knew and lied about global warming for decades. They paid and continue to pay for as science to stall action. I am completely mystified how you can find them blameless for venal politicians and a populace that largely believes their lies.
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