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Talkin’ about a Revolution

drb.ie

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Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#291

Post by wormlord »

dudefeliciano wrote: post #234
wormlord wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course wealthy or "petit bourgeois" can be leftists or Marxists or whatever, they have typically made up the intelligentsia of most left-wing revolutions historically. But the material interests of the wealthy align with the status quo that allowed them to acquire their wealth. This becomes less true as the "polycrisis" of climate change intensifies, since at some point there will be no future to enjoy, regardless…

The wealthy are not trying to maintain the status quo though, they are actively trying to dismantle the remnants of the social/welfare state. I would argue that it is exactly that social system that allowed them to become wealthy, and they want to hold and hoard the wealth, stifling economic mobility and increasing the divide. This is stupid though as it increases social tensions and IMO puts them even more at risk o…

> The wealthy are not trying to maintain the status quo though

I agree with everything you said, of course there are factions among the wealthy. Some want to keep doing business as usual liberalism, I think others anticipate climate change and want to pivot to a more violent system that allows them to horde even more wealth.

At the end of the day though, all factions of the wealthy have solidarity with each other when it matters.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#292

Post by cess11 »

myth_drannon wrote: post #290
cess11 wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a weird and ahistorical view. The jews in Egypt didn't have much problems with their neighbours until nazism and zionism arrived. 'The bad muslims mistreated the jews when they came under influence of german thought, typical muslims, a european would never'. Jews lived in Morocco since the first century AD, with the exception of the Fez massacre in 1033, mainly in peace. It's where jews could find immedi…

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I take it you wanted to start your list after islam arrived, but failed and doesn't know the muslims didn't arrive until 639 or so? And that's why you left out the roman pogroms?

It's for good reason sharia prescribes legal protections for jews, christian romans and byzantians persecuted jews incessantly.

Did you take your list from https://medium.com/@Ksantini/the-list-of-crimes-committed-by... ? And just assume it's correct and doesn't mix in a lot of christian pogroms against jews?

Edit: Zionism is mainly a protestant christian movement, it's a lot about historical revisionism regarding christian antisemitism. Most of the members are christians, the funding comes mainly from christians, the weapons are provided by christian countries, it's based on a naive distinctly protestant (i.e. 'literal' and cherry picked) reading of the Bible, and so on.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#293

Post by StefanBatory »

flr03 wrote: post #126
StefanBatory wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh, why someone like Sartre or Foucault is on this list, equal to Lenin or Mao? It's hard for me to see how they as existentialists were on par of them; and if so, ought we blame Kierkegaard and Dostoevsky too? I am asking genuinely on your stance because I don't see why you consider them to be evil.

I don't think the list makes any sense. It's just part of movement where some try to blame all the evil of the world past and present on intellectual/philosophers, that would have perversed society and academics by their ideas. The root of evil being Hegel it seems and all figures that remotely connect to him. I think the reason here is Sartre was part of the communist party in France, for some time.

Yeahhhh, Sartre political takes were something. As a Pole I do have distaste for him because he was influential person behind banning a French translation of memoirs from gulags as that'd "offend Soviets".

Still, at best I see him as a naive person, not evil.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#294

Post by antifa »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #224
aaaja wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pushback against trans rights advocacy is quite interesting because unlike with same-sex marriage, there are several distinct groups opposing it for fundamentally different reasons. Religious conservatives are one group. Radical feminists, female athletes, medical whistleblowers are others. And almost everyone draws a firm line against accepting gender identity beliefs in their romantic and sexual lives. Trying t…

I think trans advocacy is interesting and different from gay rights because it goes beyond "live and let live" and is also an ontological battle. That is to say, it is a battle not just for equal rights, but over what people think, believe, and desire. It ask is not just for the right to exist, but to be placed within the gender heterosexuals are attracted to and accepted as no different. In this way, it lacks the li…

> It ask is not just for the right to exist, but to be placed within the gender heterosexuals are attracted to and accepted as no different. In this way, it lacks the libertarian arguments of gay rights.

No one is forcing you to date someone you're not attracted to.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#295

Post by antifa »

Centigonal wrote: post #250
potato3732842 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peace and prosperity in 200yr won't help my retirement in 30.

A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

Planting trees is categorically fraud, waste, and abuse under the current regime.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#296

Post by boxed »

alabastervlog wrote: post #146
actionfromafar wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real Apartheid is not the israeli citizens. It's the people in the West Bank and Gaza. All of them should be israeli citizens too. Either that, or half a million settlers should get out. Can't have it both ways.

It's just settler colonialism. This is what it looks like, it's the same patterns and attitudes, complete with every act of resistance justifying further dehumanization and taking even more. Hell, the map of the West Bank even looks like it, it's just entirely that, top to bottom. The only difference is we're 80ish years past the point when nobody (except the colonized) minded if you were doing settler colonialism, s…

> complete with every act of resistance justifying further dehumanization and taking even more.

"Resistance" oh please. Hamas is a genocidal terrorist organization. DESPITE this Israel gave them Gaza to rule over themselves. What did they do? Steal from their own people, fire missiles weekly. And STILL Israel showed patience. There was a one-sided cease fire before 7/10, Hamas kept firing. Then after 7/10 the patience with Gaza came to an end.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#297

Post by myth_drannon »

cess11 wrote: post #292
myth_drannon wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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I take it you wanted to start your list after islam arrived, but failed and doesn't know the muslims didn't arrive until 639 or so? And that's why you left out the roman pogroms? It's for good reason sharia prescribes legal protections for jews, christian romans and byzantians persecuted jews incessantly. Did you take your list from https://medium.com/@Ksantini/the-list-of-crimes-committed-by... ? And just assume it'…

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Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#298

Post by emptysongglass »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #244
aaaja wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pushback against trans rights advocacy is quite interesting because unlike with same-sex marriage, there are several distinct groups opposing it for fundamentally different reasons. Religious conservatives are one group. Radical feminists, female athletes, medical whistleblowers are others. And almost everyone draws a firm line against accepting gender identity beliefs in their romantic and sexual lives. Trying t…

I dunno man, "citation needed" about a lot of your screed. On the whole the freaking out about "trans" stuff is mostly a red herring or strawman used for strategic propagandistic purposes more than it is reflecting any real world problematic. Making outlandish claims about how liberals are trying to do X, Y, and Z to their children's education or sports forces liberals onto the defensive forcing them to defend hormon…

Why would you blanket care about the rights of minorities? I care about the rights of lots of beings, but not minorities for minorities sake.

The person isn't making outlandish claims. You can search the web and validate all of them.

Liberals, as in new leftists responsible for the majority of purity spiral shaming we've seen on the internet for oh the last two decades now, are in fact responsible for their fair share of extremist ideologies that some folks have now taken as self-evident. This is despite the fact that many of us who once considered ourselves part of their ranks are completely sick of its absolutist language.

I've been pushed into what I guess must be a kind of center because it seems we can no longer have any discourse of any nuance around issues like trans people without being labeled a fascist or maniac neo-Nazi right-winger.

To take an example of this, I have a very close friend who is trans but even she is sick of how faddish transness has become. She insists she's a trans-medicalist, something I only recently learned about, which seems to set the bar appropriately high to being what global society (not the ultra-left view that dominates places like HN and Reddit) deems a woman.

I actually do believe in biological gender and even think the fact biological women are out there bleeding and suffering once a month in ways men can't even begin to understand does in fact separate them from other people stating they are now a woman. Or literally growing a human being inside them is both a privilege and a horror that marks someone so indelibly we call this person a woman.

Yet I can no longer reasonably even engage most of you in a nuanced discourse about this without likely getting downvoted to oblivion. There was a time once when you could, but now it seems that time has passed.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#299

Post by cess11 »

myth_drannon wrote: post #297
cess11 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it you wanted to start your list after islam arrived, but failed and doesn't know the muslims didn't arrive until 639 or so? And that's why you left out the roman pogroms? It's for good reason sharia prescribes legal protections for jews, christian romans and byzantians persecuted jews incessantly. Did you take your list from https://medium.com/@Ksantini/the-list-of-crimes-committed-by... ? And just assume it'…

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But you didn't, you showed some examples of christians massacring jews and didn't explain in any of the examples how it was islamic religion rather than e.g. politics that caused the murder.

I still have the impression you just Ctrl-F:ed 'egypt' in a random list of supposed muslim on jew violence without looking into whether it was truthful or the historical context.

What do you think the significance of Khaybar is? Are you unaware that the story goes something like this, Muhammad and his group were established in Medina, and had peace treaties there except for a group of medinese jews in Khaybar, which they besieged for some time, until they signed a treaty with them where they left them in peace in exchange for a tax in the form of dates? This is roughly at the same time as the first muslims got a peace treaty with the meccans and were allowed to begin with pilgrimage.

Usually these events are retold as evidence of Muhammad's ability to quickly resolve violent conflict and enter into diplomatic relations with their neighbours without a lot of bloodshed, but you don't seem to be aware of this. The battle of Khaybar saw something like fifteen thousand from jewish tribes in Khaybar against a tenth of that in a very brief siege and some skirmishes, with only like a hundred dead and fifty injured. Quick and relatively bloodless, and other peace treaties were also negotiated as a result.

It's also very weird to recall battles in the early 600s to excuse more than a century of terrorism and other atrocities in recent times. Roughly as absurd as the serb nationalist cult of the battle of Kosovo Polje. Are you into that stuff as well?

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#300

Post by seethedeaduu »

emptysongglass wrote: post #298
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno man, "citation needed" about a lot of your screed. On the whole the freaking out about "trans" stuff is mostly a red herring or strawman used for strategic propagandistic purposes more than it is reflecting any real world problematic. Making outlandish claims about how liberals are trying to do X, Y, and Z to their children's education or sports forces liberals onto the defensive forcing them to defend hormon…

Why would you blanket care about the rights of minorities? I care about the rights of lots of beings, but not minorities for minorities sake. The person isn't making outlandish claims. You can search the web and validate all of them. Liberals, as in new leftists responsible for the majority of purity spiral shaming we've seen on the internet for oh the last two decades now, are in fact responsible for their fair shar…

Try repeating the paragraph before the last to your "friend". Even transmedicalists tend to not be fond of this line of thinking.

> but now it seems that time has passed.

I am glad. I have yet to see any form of actually nuanced discussion about this that involves a cis person so far.

Anyway, none of this is "center".

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