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Talkin’ about a Revolution

drb.ie

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Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#201

Post by hagbard_c »

bilbo0s wrote: post #176
DeathArrow wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly my view. People should be more educated, not less.

while educational institutions should stop pushing books which promote the destructive aspects of Hegel's thoughts Well, I mean, you are kind of less educated if you only learn from books that are.. um.. "consistent with scripture" so to speak.

There is a difference between 'pushing' those books and taking their message into account in the curriculum. I did not call for a ban on such books - just before the part you quoted I said No books need to be burned, more books need to be published and read - but they should not be the leading voices.

> you are kind of less educated if you only learn from books that are.. [..] "consistent with scripture" so to speak.

Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States and similarly biased publications can be considered scripture [see also 1] in 'progressive' circles, especially those found around educational institutions. They have been used extensively for decades while educational outcomes have plummeted which proves the veracity of your claim but probably not in the way you intended.

[1] https://page-one.springer.com/pdf/preview/10.1007/978-1-349-...

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#202

Post by aaaja »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #162
davedx wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People do not change all that much morally This is debatable. In fact, the US culture war is absolutely about what American "morality" should be. It's what a lot of the Project 2025 Manifesto is about: "The document spans a wide range of policy areas, but when it comes to culture, family, and morality, it emphasizes a return to traditional values, a rollback of progressive social policies, and an assertive use of f…

Honestly, the way I see it: The people behind the 2025 stuff etc have been on the "losing" side of the culture war since 1969. And they're sick of it, they're desperate, and now are just laying their cards on the table. I grew up in an evangelical church in the 80s-- albeit in Canada -- attending "Focus on the Family" events, Bible studies, etc. that promulgated heavy socially conservative ethos -- so I feel like I h…

The pushback against trans rights advocacy is quite interesting because unlike with same-sex marriage, there are several distinct groups opposing it for fundamentally different reasons. Religious conservatives are one group. Radical feminists, female athletes, medical whistleblowers are others. And almost everyone draws a firm line against accepting gender identity beliefs in their romantic and sexual lives.

Trying to redefine "woman" and "man", "female" and "male", "homosexual" and "heterosexual" - and then reengineering society by decree based on these controversial redefinitions - is going to get opposition across the board.

I think this is why it's become such a hot "culture war" topic, because it undermines the deeply-held views of many, many more people than just religious conservatives.

Take gay marriage for instance - this was fought both for and against on the basis of it being a same-sex union. But from the perspective of gender identity believers, if, for example, someone female merely identifies as male, then marries a male (who also identifies as male), then this is a "gay marriage" too. Despite this actually being a heterosexual pairing.

On top of this, where these beliefs have been forced into law and policy, it has caused actual physical harms. Women being raped and impregnated by male prisoners who identified their way into the female prison estate is amongst the worst of these. But lawmakers in states that have enabled this will claim it's progressive policy, somehow. Even though it's regressing back to over a century ago when mixed-sex prisons where commonplace and incarcerated women were at constant risk of sexual violence and exploitation from the men they were locked up with.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#203

Post by grumpy-de-sre »

alabastervlog wrote: post #196
grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The great news is we can break the internet if needed. It will be torn down and chopped up into moderated walled gardens, it's inevitable. Algorithmic rage bait and echo chambers are incompatible with a functioning society.

> It will be torn down and chopped up into moderated walled gardens, it's inevitable. Algorithmic rage bait and echo chambers are incompatible with a functioning society. I've reckoned a free global Internet's incompatible with functioning democracy (or most other forms of government) for about a decade now. I figure our "great firewall" will be in the form of cryptographically origin-attributed routing, and making p…

Definitely a great place to start!

Do you have any links to any material/info on this topic? I'm sure some folks have begun talking about protocols.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#204

Post by dudefeliciano »

wormlord wrote: post #197
code_for_monkey wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would appreciate a broader examination of how this site politics function because no one here seems to understand the difference between liberals and leftists.

This site is mostly wealthy and older who have benefitted from the neoliberal status quo. It's why many commenters can shrug off the insane shit happening like opaque deportations of random people to a fucking concentration camp in El Salvador, it only affects people on the margins who they think they are very far removed from. In wealthy urban areas there are a lot of liberals who don't have a materialist basis for…

> I'm not sure what it would take for the older and wealthier folks on here to open their eyes.

I think there are plenty of wealthy folks who understand the benfits of living in a more equal society, and that would gladly pay their fair share to live in such a society. The problem is they are not enough, and worse yet the middle class and what remains of the working class are actively pushing propaganda that goes directly against their own interests (perhaps because they think that one day they will too be millionaires).

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#205

Post by 9rx »

baxtr wrote: post #65
dataflow wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Fine"? Did the history professor consider anything other than history or politics? The way global warming and our general destruction of nature is going (not just species or climate but also e.g. depletion of groundwater in a lot of heavily populated areas), I'm not sure democracy will be our biggest concern in 200 years' time.

No, he did not consider things that have never happened before. He can only extrapolate from events that already happened. Human made global warming is a first time, so difficult to say what will happen from a historical perspective.

> Human made global warming is a first time

Human-made global warming appears to go back to the advent of agriculture, though, so for all intents and purposes it has been a constant throughout the history of which we speak.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#206

Post by barbazoo »

graemep wrote: post #19

The world gets both better and worse. it is something that I regularly get voted down for saying here, but IMO the west is unduly pessimist because it had a golden age from winning the cold war until the late 2000s, took an overly optimistic view of the future and the inevitability of progress (remember "the end of history") and cannot cope with things going back to normal. Things get better, sometimes they get worse…

> cannot cope with things going back to normal.

Interesting take on "normal" by Canadian physician Gabor Maté.

https://drgabormate.com/book/the-myth-of-normal/

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#207

Post by bloomingeek »

davedx wrote: post #68
graemep wrote: post #19

The world gets both better and worse. it is something that I regularly get voted down for saying here, but IMO the west is unduly pessimist because it had a golden age from winning the cold war until the late 2000s, took an overly optimistic view of the future and the inevitability of progress (remember "the end of history") and cannot cope with things going back to normal. Things get better, sometimes they get worse…

> People do not change all that much morally This is debatable. In fact, the US culture war is absolutely about what American "morality" should be. It's what a lot of the Project 2025 Manifesto is about: "The document spans a wide range of policy areas, but when it comes to culture, family, and morality, it emphasizes a return to traditional values, a rollback of progressive social policies, and an assertive use of f…

Your quoted sentence is an example of a group of people who have no idea of how to run a country. They are using the uneducated voter to support an agenda that is mostly unconstitutional. We Americans, just like other countries with a rule of law, determine our own culture within those laws.

To use federal power to reshape our culture is both arrogant and, since Project 2025 is how they want to do the reshaping, is against the New Testament principle of "live and let live". (another way to state this principle is: "Christian, mind your own business and stay in your lane.")

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#208

Post by alabastervlog »

grumpy-de-sre wrote: post #203
alabastervlog wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It will be torn down and chopped up into moderated walled gardens, it's inevitable. Algorithmic rage bait and echo chambers are incompatible with a functioning society. I've reckoned a free global Internet's incompatible with functioning democracy (or most other forms of government) for about a decade now. I figure our "great firewall" will be in the form of cryptographically origin-attributed routing, and making p…

Definitely a great place to start! Do you have any links to any material/info on this topic? I'm sure some folks have begun talking about protocols.

BGP route origin validation is already partially deployed in the wild, I believe. I recall reading about BGP replacement protocols years back that were being developed to include even stronger route-signing. Once you have that kind of thing in place, you basically have everything you need for a decentralized, origin-focused great firewall, it's just a matter of activating it.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#209

Post by bloomingeek »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #162
davedx wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People do not change all that much morally This is debatable. In fact, the US culture war is absolutely about what American "morality" should be. It's what a lot of the Project 2025 Manifesto is about: "The document spans a wide range of policy areas, but when it comes to culture, family, and morality, it emphasizes a return to traditional values, a rollback of progressive social policies, and an assertive use of f…

Honestly, the way I see it: The people behind the 2025 stuff etc have been on the "losing" side of the culture war since 1969. And they're sick of it, they're desperate, and now are just laying their cards on the table. I grew up in an evangelical church in the 80s-- albeit in Canada -- attending "Focus on the Family" events, Bible studies, etc. that promulgated heavy socially conservative ethos -- so I feel like I h…

Ditto.

Re: Talkin’ about a Revolution

#210

Post by dudefeliciano »

alabastervlog wrote: post #137
dudefeliciano wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not stupid, just lacking class consciousness

Class consciousness is entirely too intellectual and nerdy to ever be popular, you'll never convince someone swayed by bumper stickers to read and thoughtfully consider your 500-word ultra-concise argument for it. "Vibes" and populism drive voter behavior. Cheap populist messages will always resonate at least as well as even an ultra-simplified "it's all of us versus the owners of capital". Us vs. Them is what populi…

> Class consciousness is entirely too intellectual and nerdy to ever be popular,

well yea, and Marx is a taboo, nothing new there. Those ideas can be repackaged though, in a way that won't make people foam at the mouth because of the "communist sounding words" (thinking of gary's economics for example). I agree with what you said, it's easier to package an "Anti-something" message, as we see with all the anti-immigrant messaging in the US and Europe, the Anti-Billionaire movement still has not gained even a fraction of the traction though.

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