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Windows 11 is closing a loophole that let you skip making a Microsoft account

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Re: Windows 11 is closing a loophole that let you skip making a Microsoft account

#201

Post by simoncion »

hatthew wrote: post #190
simoncion wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...driver update issues... Are these nVidia drivers? If so, there's your problem. nVidia on Linux has always been a shitshow of varying degrees (and based on my investigation over the years, I've found that the majority of the problems people say they have with xorg are problems that go away when you use AMD or Intel hardware). Anyway, Steam works great for me on Linux, and I don't use the various cheating tools th…

In my experience, there were no linux drivers that work as well as the first-party drivers on windows

If you're talking about out-of-tree drivers (which are generally ones that you download and install separately... the Nvidia closed-source driver is one such example), then I can believe that.

If you're talking about in-tree drivers (which will be the overwhelming majority of drivers running on the system [0]), well, pull the other one, kid.

[0] Unless you've done the thing some folks coming from Windows get confused and do, which is go searching for and installing drivers that you don't need, because they don't know that the good ones are already packed in.

Re: Windows 11 is closing a loophole that let you skip making a Microsoft account

#202

Post by hatthew »

simoncion wrote: post #201
hatthew wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, there were no linux drivers that work as well as the first-party drivers on windows

If you're talking about out-of-tree drivers (which are generally ones that you download and install separately... the Nvidia closed-source driver is one such example), then I can believe that. If you're talking about in-tree drivers (which will be the overwhelming majority of drivers running on the system [0]), well, pull the other one, kid. [0] Unless you've done the thing some folks coming from Windows get confused…

Last time I tried gaming on linux it explicitly made me choose between two options. One was the nvidia driver and one was not, and both had problems.

Re: Windows 11 is closing a loophole that let you skip making a Microsoft account

#203

Post by simoncion »

hatthew wrote: post #202
simoncion wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about out-of-tree drivers (which are generally ones that you download and install separately... the Nvidia closed-source driver is one such example), then I can believe that. If you're talking about in-tree drivers (which will be the overwhelming majority of drivers running on the system [0]), well, pull the other one, kid. [0] Unless you've done the thing some folks coming from Windows get confused…

Last time I tried gaming on linux it explicitly made me choose between two options. One was the nvidia driver and one was not, and both had problems.

So out of the fifty-to-a-hundred-or-so drivers loaded on your system one gave you problems... and that one was the Nvidia driver, whose closed-source version is known to generally be just absolutely godawful in every aspect other than "provides maximum performance, when you're able to get it installed and working", and whose opensource version is known to be an enormous crapshoot (on account of it being reverse-engineered with zero help from Nvidia).

That sounds about right.

Re: Windows 11 is closing a loophole that let you skip making a Microsoft account

#204

Post by hatthew »

simoncion wrote: post #203
hatthew wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I tried gaming on linux it explicitly made me choose between two options. One was the nvidia driver and one was not, and both had problems.

So out of the fifty-to-a-hundred-or-so drivers loaded on your system one gave you problems... and that one was the Nvidia driver, whose closed-source version is known to generally be just absolutely godawful in every aspect other than "provides maximum performance, when you're able to get it installed and working", and whose opensource version is known to be an enormous crapshoot (on account of it being reverse-engin…

Yes. That's my point. They didn't work well, and caused issues when trying to game on linux, whereas windows was fine in that respect.

Re: Windows 11 is closing a loophole that let you skip making a Microsoft account

#205

Post by simoncion »

hatthew wrote: post #204
simoncion wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So out of the fifty-to-a-hundred-or-so drivers loaded on your system one gave you problems... and that one was the Nvidia driver, whose closed-source version is known to generally be just absolutely godawful in every aspect other than "provides maximum performance, when you're able to get it installed and working", and whose opensource version is known to be an enormous crapshoot (on account of it being reverse-engin…

Yes. That's my point. They didn't work well, and caused issues when trying to game on linux, whereas windows was fine in that respect.

Nah, mate. You said:

> In my experience, there were no linux drivers that work as well as the first-party drivers on windows

I said:

> So out of the fifty-to-a-hundred-or-so drivers loaded on your system one gave you problems... and that one was the Nvidia driver...

and you agreed.

Re: Windows 11 is closing a loophole that let you skip making a Microsoft account

#206

Post by hatthew »

simoncion wrote: post #205
hatthew wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. That's my point. They didn't work well, and caused issues when trying to game on linux, whereas windows was fine in that respect.

Nah, mate. You said: > In my experience, there were no linux drivers that work as well as the first-party drivers on windows I said: > So out of the fifty-to-a-hundred-or-so drivers loaded on your system one gave you problems... and that one was the Nvidia driver... and you agreed.

Sorry, I'm very confused here. What's your point? Yes, at least one gave me problems, but specifically more than one gave me problems. Both graphics driver options did, and other unrelated drivers did as well.

Re: Windows 11 is closing a loophole that let you skip making a Microsoft account

#207

Post by glenstein »

hatthew wrote: post #191
glenstein wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're describing sounds like the Linux gaming experience of 4-5 years ago. Steam and Proton have been complete game changers though, bringing the normal gaming experience with thousands (tens of thousands?) of games to Linux. It's not like it used to be.

There are a lot of games that work well on linux. Maybe even most games! But there are also many games that do not work on linux. It's not fun to tell my friends "hey I'll be sitting this one out, let me know when we move on to another game"

Again I have to stress how behind the times this take is. I recommend you check out the Steam Deck and the Proton project. It's something like 20,000 compatible games at this point.

If you're really missing something, then great, get a console to go with your Linux desktop or laptop setup. Still no need for Windows.

Re: Windows 11 is closing a loophole that let you skip making a Microsoft account

#208

Post by hatthew »

glenstein wrote: post #207
hatthew wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of games that work well on linux. Maybe even most games! But there are also many games that do not work on linux. It's not fun to tell my friends "hey I'll be sitting this one out, let me know when we move on to another game"

Again I have to stress how behind the times this take is. I recommend you check out the Steam Deck and the Proton project. It's something like 20,000 compatible games at this point. If you're really missing something, then great, get a console to go with your Linux desktop or laptop setup. Still no need for Windows.

Go look at https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=mostBorked. In the first 50 games, there are 5 that I play that appear to be completely unplayable on linux at the moment. Is it behind the times to prefer an OS where literally every single game I've played in the last year has booted with no issues?

Hypothetically if I were to switch back to linux as my main OS, I'd rather just dual boot windows than buy a console with an OS that is, in my opinion, even worse than windows.

Re: Windows 11 is closing a loophole that let you skip making a Microsoft account

#209

Post by glenstein »

hatthew wrote: post #208
glenstein wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again I have to stress how behind the times this take is. I recommend you check out the Steam Deck and the Proton project. It's something like 20,000 compatible games at this point. If you're really missing something, then great, get a console to go with your Linux desktop or laptop setup. Still no need for Windows.

Go look at https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=mostBorked . In the first 50 games, there are 5 that I play that appear to be completely unplayable on linux at the moment. Is it behind the times to prefer an OS where literally every single game I've played in the last year has booted with no issues? Hypothetically if I were to switch back to linux as my main OS, I'd rather just dual boot windows than buy a console w…

It's hilarious that the excuse for needing Windows is to pretend that in this context that you would be using the game console as your primary operating system. That's what Linux is for. If the problem with Linux is that 20,000 modern games being supported isn't enough because you still need to play Fall Guys, which is a hilariously boutique thing to hang the whole legitimacy of Windows on, then your problem is better solved with a console than with adding Windows. The operating system was already accounted for. Amazingly, your preferred solution is to have the worse operating system and fewer games.

>Is it behind the times to prefer an OS where literally every single game I've played in the last year has booted with no issues?

You're copying the manner of my phrasing while turning it into a rhetorical question about a different topic, you're not being responsive to my point about it being behind the times to claim that Linux does not offer a thoroughly modern gaming experience.

I'm pretty sure that type of non sequitur response is exactly what the Onion was making fun of in its headline: "Hippie wants to tell you what the real crime is." The joke is the familiar feeling of hearing someone go off who clearly didn't pay attention to a word you said.

Re: Windows 11 is closing a loophole that let you skip making a Microsoft account

#210

Post by hatthew »

glenstein wrote: post #209
hatthew wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go look at https://www.protondb.com/explore?sort=mostBorked . In the first 50 games, there are 5 that I play that appear to be completely unplayable on linux at the moment. Is it behind the times to prefer an OS where literally every single game I've played in the last year has booted with no issues? Hypothetically if I were to switch back to linux as my main OS, I'd rather just dual boot windows than buy a console w…

It's hilarious that the excuse for needing Windows is to pretend that in this context that you would be using the game console as your primary operating system. That's what Linux is for. If the problem with Linux is that 20,000 modern games being supported isn't enough because you still need to play Fall Guys, which is a hilariously boutique thing to hang the whole legitimacy of Windows on, then your problem is bette…

sorry to have bothered you
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