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US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

independent.co.uk

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Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#101

Post by timeon »

jrs235 wrote: post #88
mcv wrote: post #20

This is why due process is essential for everybody. The moment you deny it to one group, you can deny it to anyone by claiming they're in that one group.

I do believe the whole concept of beyond A reasonable doubt was based upon the belief that it is better for 10 guilty men to go free than for one innocent man to suffer. What is happening is a slap in the face of our foundational principles and justice system.

> I do believe the whole concept of beyond A reasonable doubt was based upon the belief that it is better for 10 guilty men to go free than for one innocent man to suffer.

Societies that do believe in this do not have capital punishment. It seems to me from the outside that US have different priorities. Like with school-shootings - apparently that is worth it there.

Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#102

Post by timeon »

ReptileMan wrote: post #48
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #19

Accidents like this are required in order to demonstrate the scale of the "will" behind the power. This should be a un-ignorable reminder of the value of due process. Better a guilty person go free than an innocent person sent to their long, slow, undignified death.

>This should be a un-ignorable reminder of the value of due process I agree with you. Now explain how can we scale the due process to deport everyone that entered here illegally in a reasonable timeframe. 15-30 million hearings will take a century to be resolved. The system is not designed for such massive load in mind.

Are you suggesting that this needs to be industrialized?

Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#105

Post by tvaughan »

fabian2k wrote: post #14

It's not an accident if the government intentionally circumvents all checks that usually would apply to cases like this and denies them due process. It's also intentional that they send these people to a prison in a different country (and for most of them not the country they are originally from) with conditions that would certainly be illegal in the US itself. This is also about more than just this single case. From…

This isn’t an accident. They said they’d do this. People voted for this. This is what some people want to happen. No one should be surprised by this. On the campaign trail Trump promised to deport 20 million people. They’re aren’t 20 million undocumented people in the US. The only way you can deport 20 million people is to deport a lot people who have no reason whatsoever to be deported.

Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#106

Post by memtet »

lores wrote: post #9

Implement Lex Talionis for gross misconduct in public office. Did an official, through gross negligence, cause irreparable harm to innocents? Mete the same harm upon them; then empathy may stop being a weakness. /s, but I became less sure of it as I typed.

[dead]

Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#107

Post by disqard »

croes wrote: post #54

That’s the most vicious part > sent a Salvadorian immigrant to a notorious Salvadorian prison >the man had protected immigration status in the U.S., specifically barring him from being sent back to that country for fear of persecution.

The cruelty is the point.

Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#108

Post by rchaud »

mcv wrote: post #20

This is why due process is essential for everybody. The moment you deny it to one group, you can deny it to anyone by claiming they're in that one group.

Due process exists. The ability to compel a government to respect it does not exist.

Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#109

Post by _DeadFred_ »

Ntrails wrote: post #84
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #19

Accidents like this are required in order to demonstrate the scale of the "will" behind the power. This should be a un-ignorable reminder of the value of due process. Better a guilty person go free than an innocent person sent to their long, slow, undignified death.

> Better a guilty person go free than an innocent person sent to their long, slow, undignified death. This is a scale thing though right? You'll have some false convictions if you want a justice system. Nothing is perfect, breakage inevitable. Nobody wants to be the victim of a miscarriage of justice themselves, but everyone wants crime to be dealt with effectively. The trade offs are real and I suspect the average p…

They said there were how many tens of thousands of these gang members? And these are the first, highest priority ones they choose to ship out? If their highest priority test cases are this crappy/low priority/not actual criminals, imagine when they get past the first ten thousand.

Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#110

Post by memtet »

occamrazor wrote: post #12
lores wrote: post #9

Implement Lex Talionis for gross misconduct in public office. Did an official, through gross negligence, cause irreparable harm to innocents? Mete the same harm upon them; then empathy may stop being a weakness. /s, but I became less sure of it as I typed.

FYI: Lex, not Rex. But a Rex Talionis is an interesting concept too.

[dead]
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