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US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

independent.co.uk

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Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#71

Post by ethbr1 »

ReptileMan wrote: post #58
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's so important to get done quickly, hire more people to do it. Move resources to solve the most pressing problems first. Otherwise let law/justice take as long as law/justice takes.

>Otherwise let law/justice take as long as law/justice takes. Once again I agree with you. Let's deport them first and make remote immigration courts in every US embassy. This way they have remedy for false positives, and let law/justice take as long as law/justice takes

It sure would have helped if we'd hired those additional immigration judges that the bipartisan bill would have funded... before Trump shot it down to deny Biden a political point.

And being forcibly removed from the US is exactly the sort of power that due process is intended to limit, by Constitutional design for all people in the US (not just citizens).

Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#72

Post by forinti »

ravenstine wrote: post #25

My first thought seeing this headline: "Please don't tell me he got sent to CECOT." > Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) admitted to mistakenly sending Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia to El Salvador’s notoriously brutal CECOT prison. :O If you haven't heard of CECOT, go watch one of the recent YouTube videos on it. I'm glad that El Salvador has taken control over gang activity but, man, CECOT is one of the last p…

I just hope that the images we get are for show and that normally they let human beings actually walk upright and don't slap them around willy-nilly.

Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#73

Post by nroets »

croes wrote: post #53
nroets wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please go read up what happened outside Krakow, Poland in the 1940s. I did. I actually visited. Trump is still very very far away from that. Assuming this man is innocent, we should rather blame El Salvador for actually imprisoning him.

What happened in Germany 1933? Its only 3 month since Trump became president.

1933 isn't what the Nazis were known for. Many countries had coups or abandoned democracy or rule of law.

Calling someone a Nazi is saying he's a mass murderer. Don't cry wolf!

Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#74

Post by codewench »

pjc50 wrote: post #63
ReptileMan wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This should be a un-ignorable reminder of the value of due process I agree with you. Now explain how can we scale the due process to deport everyone that entered here illegally in a reasonable timeframe. 15-30 million hearings will take a century to be resolved. The system is not designed for such massive load in mind.

> 15-30 million hearings What level of false positives are you willing to tolerate - US nationals wrongly deported? How many fatalities (including suicides) are you willing to tolerate in this process? (fairly easy to imagine hypothetical situation: lawful US national gun owner with Hispanic name is shopped to immigration by his neighbours. ICE come to his house in the middle of the night to deprive him of his rights…

>Is he (a) legally (b) morally entitled to open fire on them?

Given how these "arrests" seem to be done by plainclothes individuals who don't identify themselves?

Yes. Legally (depending on state) yes, and morally always.

(Arrests in quotations because anyone arrested has rights, something that seems to be skipped over here)

Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#75

Post by throw310822 »

bestouff wrote: post #57
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US seems to treat its successful citizens incredibly well, but punish its failures incredibly harshly. Your point is valid.

I wouldn't be so sure about the successful citizens. You probably have to be WASP cis male to maximize your chances.

Yeah, wasp cis males such as Sam Altman or Peter Thiel or Brin, Page, Zuckerberg, Cook, Nadella, Pichai, Huang...

Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#76

Post by drcongo »

ReptileMan wrote: post #48
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #19

Accidents like this are required in order to demonstrate the scale of the "will" behind the power. This should be a un-ignorable reminder of the value of due process. Better a guilty person go free than an innocent person sent to their long, slow, undignified death.

>This should be a un-ignorable reminder of the value of due process I agree with you. Now explain how can we scale the due process to deport everyone that entered here illegally in a reasonable timeframe. 15-30 million hearings will take a century to be resolved. The system is not designed for such massive load in mind.

Username checks out.

Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#78

Post by AngryData »

ReptileMan wrote: post #65
pjc50 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 15-30 million hearings What level of false positives are you willing to tolerate - US nationals wrongly deported? How many fatalities (including suicides) are you willing to tolerate in this process? (fairly easy to imagine hypothetical situation: lawful US national gun owner with Hispanic name is shopped to immigration by his neighbours. ICE come to his house in the middle of the night to deprive him of his rights…

He shows his id and they say sorry to disturb you sir.

So a simple fake ID is all you would need to thwart immigration or cops? What happens if you don't have your ID on you? What if you legitimately lost your ID and are still waiting for a replacement?

What paperwork do you have that confirms you are a citizen right now? Especially since birthright citizenship is now being thrown out the window.

Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#79

Post by [deleted] »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #44
nroets wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please go read up what happened outside Krakow, Poland in the 1940s. I did. I actually visited. Trump is still very very far away from that. Assuming this man is innocent, we should rather blame El Salvador for actually imprisoning him.

> Assuming this man is innocent, we should rather blame El Salvador for actually imprisoning him. No! Trump bypassed due process intentionally and quickly (and illegally) so that the courts, which ruled it illegal, couldn't pass the ruling in time to stop the flights. We should blame Trump and all of the chain of command beneath him that took part in it.

[deleted]

Re: US accidentally sent Maryland father to Salvadorian prison, can't get him back

#80

Post by ReptileMan »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #64
ReptileMan wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Otherwise let law/justice take as long as law/justice takes. Once again I agree with you. Let's deport them first and make remote immigration courts in every US embassy. This way they have remedy for false positives, and let law/justice take as long as law/justice takes

But how do you know who to deport without due process? Papers please? (you answered above: Papers Please it is.)

What is wrong with papers please?
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