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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#361

Post by smallmancontrov »

sepositus wrote: post #322
NotMichaelBay wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what we know about disinformation shows people don't have to actually be bullied, they just have to think they're being bullied. Disinformation is cheap and apparently yields great returns.

I mean, this is exactly the kind of thinking that got us here. We just attribute everything to disinformation and throw our hands up as if none of this was avoidable. I'm convinced that people on the right were called Nazi's long enough that some people literally think _every_ one of them is a literal, actual Nazi. To the point where they think there's no hope in ever reaching them. I saw this coming years ago. The r…

No, the occasional hazy reflection of the constant barrage of "socialist/communist/Marxist" accusations from the right did not cause the problem and Democrats being even more limp-wristed would not have fixed it.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#362

Post by galaxyLogic »

echelon wrote: post #255
p1necone wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really convinced more than a vanishingly small percentage of people who self identify as "free speech absolutists" are using that term in good faith. Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. Anecdotally I've noticed these sorts of people much less often, at least on here as of late. Methinks their deniabilit…

The current administration does not support free speech for everyone. It's actively punishing free speech. You're right -- many people who claim to support free speech really mean they favor "free speech for me, not for thee." And typically these people want to be able to say controversial things without consequence. But how people respond to speech is orthogonal to whether or not we are allowed to exercise our right…

It would be counter-intuitive if they defended the free speech of those who want to take away the free speech of others.

Part of Free Speech is that it does not matter to have it if nobody hears you, maybe because your voice is drowned out by powerful media, serving the interests of the few. Therefore we need Equal Rights to free speech for everybody, especially when it comes to elections.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#363

Post by zmgsabst »

mmooss wrote: post #128
starchild3001 wrote: post #82

I thought this country was founded on the principles of enlightenment. And the same principles made it a world leader. Now that enlightenment values are actively being dismantled what next can we expect?

I think it starts with undermining the values: Note the disparagement of freedom, of knowledge, science, and education as ways humans can make their world better - even the idea of making the world better and of truth itself; of the rule of law rather than the rule of power, and the embrace of violence, athletics, etc. Notice the contempt for the enlightenment and embrace of ancient Rome and other sub-democratic or d…

It wasn’t the MAGA movement that started dismantling Western culture in the US.

That’s been happening from Leftist criticism for generations.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#364

Post by wrs »

sega_sai wrote: post #78

As a person who lived in the States for a bit, and listened to a lot of news, I remember always this almost fawning over the Founding Fathers, checks and balances and great American constitution. It is remarkable, how easy it all goes, and most people don't do anything (i.e. out of 100 top law firms, only a handful joined the lawsuit against the government, etc.)

What we’re experiencing is a group exploiting the biggest vulnerability in the American system, one that was known to the founding fathers. If you can get enough people to vote for you and your friends, then all of the checks and balances will eventually fail against you, because in the end they’re all dependent on the populace not voting for people who corrupt the system.

It probably wouldn’t have seemed plausible to them that someone could be impeached twice and convicted of fraud, then win the popular vote.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#365

Post by tayo42 »

barfingclouds wrote: post #252
dclowd9901 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you look at it from the perspective of faithless reporting like that from Fox News and Newsmax, the information pipeline has been selling a narrative that the left has been on an authoritarian tear since Obama. The newscasts are chilling: every one of them for more than two decades has taken a position that the left is an existential threat to the United States. With that kind of context, it's really no wond…

The left has been authoritarian. Rewind the clock to 2018, and speak your mind freely on a college campus and at some point you’ll say something that makes you lose your job. That’s one of many examples of the left being actually authoritarian. I’m not saying two wrongs make a right and I’m not justifying the current administration. But if we look to how we got here, that’s a lot of why, if not mostly why.

Having social repercussions for things you say isn't the government. How is that authoritarian?

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#366

Post by tetromino_ »

sapphicsnail wrote: post #313
slibhb wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. The idea that it's somehow suspicious to be in favor of free speech has got to be one of the worst developments in American politics. And, for whatever it's worth, every vocal "free speech person" I know doesn't like the current administation. Some people actually just have…

I have yet to see a free speech absolutist express concern about the government and media suppressing Gaza protestors or LGBTQ books being banned or anything else that affects the left. Doesn't seem very principled to me.

> I have yet to see a free speech absolutist express concern ...

Hi there. You are seeing one right now. Well, seeing the words of one.

I am a free speech absolutist. What this administration is doing is abominable. I have always seen anti-Israeli campus posters as idiots, but Trump's crackdown on them is, imho, unconstitutional and immoral.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#367

Post by k12sosse »

I don't think things are going to get any better before they're really, really much worse. Nobody's going to do anything until someone does way too much.

This is the revolution gig economy. Don't forget to click that bell so you can be notified of new videos as they come out.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#368

Post by cwillu »

justanotheratom wrote: post #211
drewrv wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every video that has been broadcast has been edited I'm not sure what your point is.

Harris' response to a question was edited, that is not fine. https://x.com/i/grok/share/KODjBWCrzF8oPmKyPCFuVj1c7

Try again with a source that isn't AI crap.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#369

Post by magicalist »

grandempire wrote: post #315

If the signal story mattered they would lead with the content of the messages. Perhaps they would not even reveal the method of the info was obtained. Since the story is reversed, and the public is not talking about what is said, I'm guessing nothing happened.

> they would lead with the content of the messages

They did, but with some information only described, but then they were called liars so they released the content that showed those accusing them of lying were in fact lying.

> Perhaps they would not even reveal the method of the info was obtained

The idiocy that led to them obtaining the info was very much part of the story.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#370

Post by YZF »

esalman wrote: post #184

It started with the Free Palestine protesters. Tesla protesters are next. Citizens will be shipped to El Salvador, non-citizens to where they came from.

You mean this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF2MHRtONo4 and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmBk3T935CI is just free speech?

Here's the deal. You want free speech don't intimidate, threaten and vandalize.

I own a Tesla. I bought one because I wanted an EV to reduce my emissions and that was the best one (years ago). Your right to free speech doesn't trump (heh, see what I did there) my right to be safe.

EDIT: FWIW I am not American. Where I live there is no such thing as "free speech" like in America. We also don't all carry guns like in America. You guys do you. But I'm pretty sure the my links are not free speech, even in America.

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