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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#321

Post by nkurz »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #139
nl wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's stated he is contemplating getting Vance to run, then for Vance to step down in favor of Trump. > Trump, 78, said in the interview that he was serious about seeking a third term in office. > "A lot of people want me to do it," Trump said, according to NBC News. "But we have – my thinking is, we have a long way to go. I'm focused on the current." > When asked about specific plans for seeking a third term, Trump c…

> He's stated he is contemplating getting Vance to run, then for Vance to step down in favor of Trump Technically illegal due to the Twelfth Amendment: “no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States” [1]. Simpler: run two randos, have the House choose Trump as Speaker [2], have the randos resign [3]. [1] https://constitution.congress.…

I presume you are familiar with the standard counter argument that the Constitution says "elected" rather than "serve"?

Here's a Constitutional law professor arguing 25 years ago that Bill Clinton was constitutionally eligible to run again as VP: https://web.archive.org/web/20051001004410/http://archives.c...

It's easy to claim that Trump running as VP would violate the spirit of the 12th amendment, but I think there is genuine doubt as to how the Supreme Court might rule.

Separately, could you contact me by the email in my profile? I've got a (mostly unrelated) question I've been meaning to ask you. No hurry.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#322

Post by sepositus »

NotMichaelBay wrote: post #282
sepositus wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people don't like being told to what say/think/do. It turns out if you bully those people enough they elect a dictator. It wasn't and still isn't a surprise to me.

I think what we know about disinformation shows people don't have to actually be bullied, they just have to think they're being bullied. Disinformation is cheap and apparently yields great returns.

I mean, this is exactly the kind of thinking that got us here. We just attribute everything to disinformation and throw our hands up as if none of this was avoidable. I'm convinced that people on the right were called Nazi's long enough that some people literally think _every_ one of them is a literal, actual Nazi. To the point where they think there's no hope in ever reaching them.

I saw this coming years ago. The rhetoric on both sides was never going to end up in anything remotely resembling healthy. Both sides are too busy pointing fingers now to really want to do anything about it.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#323

Post by starik36 »

esalman wrote: post #184

It started with the Free Palestine protesters. Tesla protesters are next. Citizens will be shipped to El Salvador, non-citizens to where they came from.

If those protesters were harassing Jewish students (as happened at various times during these protests) or openly supporting a designated terrorist organization, they should be referred to law enforcement.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#324

Post by aprilthird2021 »

mychael wrote: post #288
starchild3001 wrote: post #82

I thought this country was founded on the principles of enlightenment. And the same principles made it a world leader. Now that enlightenment values are actively being dismantled what next can we expect?

[flagged]

How in the world does pardoning multiple fraudsters, kidnapping people for deportation based on their writings in newspapers, threatening to annex other sovereign nations, and threatening to forcibly depopulate an entire nation, at all reflect enlightenment values??

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#325

Post by wwweston »

Barrin92 wrote: post #265
starchild3001 wrote: post #82

I thought this country was founded on the principles of enlightenment. And the same principles made it a world leader. Now that enlightenment values are actively being dismantled what next can we expect?

>I thought this country was founded on the principles of enlightenment. I'm gonna be honest, the actual founding fathers as individuals aside, most of the people coming over where arguably running away from the Enlightenment rather than towards it, and a superstitious and fantastical isolationism was the norm, not the exception for most of America's history, while the post WWII leadership role was more of an accident…

Reading _First Principles_ by Thomas Ricks a few years ago was an eye opener -- the founding fathers and national civic culture definitely drew deeply from enlightenment thinking and further back classical civics and philosophy.

Towards the end of his book, Ricks notes the populist / religious backlash to enlightenment thinking that was already underway by the early 19th century.

It's strange to realize the post WWII America most of us have lived may really be exceptional, and how many either don't understand how big a part the liberal order has played in making America great since FDR, or have a different vision of greatness that requires tearing much of what we've enjoyed down.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#326

Post by skoopie »

esalman wrote: post #184

It started with the Free Palestine protesters. Tesla protesters are next. Citizens will be shipped to El Salvador, non-citizens to where they came from.

We should treat the Free Palestine and Tesla protesters the same way J6 protesters were treated. Throw them in prison until the next Democrat president pardons them.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#327

Post by aprilthird2021 »

sepositus wrote: post #217
dclowd9901 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you look at it from the perspective of faithless reporting like that from Fox News and Newsmax, the information pipeline has been selling a narrative that the left has been on an authoritarian tear since Obama. The newscasts are chilling: every one of them for more than two decades has taken a position that the left is an existential threat to the United States. With that kind of context, it's really no wond…

A lot of people don't like being told to what say/think/do. It turns out if you bully those people enough they elect a dictator. It wasn't and still isn't a surprise to me.

But a government is supposed to tell you what to say, think, and do. This dictatorial government is actually enforcing that you say and think what they want, unlike all the others.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#328

Post by lovich »

p1necone wrote: post #174
twright wrote: post #122

This is a really good compilation that should make any "free-speech absolutist" reconsider their support for the current administration. In my understanding, the commonplace interpretation of the first amendment is largely due to a series of landmark cases through the early to mid-20th century. A lot of expansions were provided to the amendment that have been taken for granted since then and we are now going to see c…

I'm not really convinced more than a vanishingly small percentage of people who self identify as "free speech absolutists" are using that term in good faith. Freedom of speech is just the easiest way to have plausible deniability when directly or indirectly defending otherwise indefensible positions. Anecdotally I've noticed these sorts of people much less often, at least on here as of late. Methinks their deniabilit…

>Anecdotally I've noticed these sorts of people much less often, at least on here as of late. Methinks their deniability isn't so plausible any more.

They don't need to do any denials anymore because they have won. That was part of arguing in bad faith, they never actually believed the arguments. Nothing being discussed on a message board is going to change that

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#329

Post by bediger4000 »

justanotheratom wrote: post #211
drewrv wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every video that has been broadcast has been edited I'm not sure what your point is.

Harris' response to a question was edited, that is not fine. https://x.com/i/grok/share/KODjBWCrzF8oPmKyPCFuVj1c7

I assume you're at least as upset by the cleanup that NYT and WaPo have done to Trump's utterances. During his helicopter news conferences, we'd see and hear what he said, and it was nothing like what was reported.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#330

Post by andreygrehov »

nozzlegear wrote: post #224
andreygrehov wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is normal: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Y0iiww5KFTg

The US is not at war, isn't being invaded by an aggressive neighboring country, and doesn't have an active draft. That is the key difference that you're obtusely refusing to acknowledge here.

I never said the US is at war with anybody. I said: "that reminds me of what's happening in my hometown in Ukraine".

> isn't being invaded

According to the White House, there is an invasion: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/prot...

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