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How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

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Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#141

Post by macintux »

quotemstr wrote: post #110
jfengel wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are already long past the point of no return. He is the manifestation of a popular will. Even if he vanished tomorrow, those voters will remain. They will not be daunted by an electoral setback. They control the Supreme Court, and will for decades. They control a majority of state legislatures -- which control how voting and districting work. We've been past the point of no return since 2016. If you still had hope…

> It gets monotonically worse from here, and there is no longer anything we can do about it. For decades now, government policy has had approximately nothing to do with the will of the public. ( https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli... ) This situation is now being corrected. Anyone who sees this as a catastrophe, as getting "monotonically worse", is no fan of a republican form of government

This republican form of government was explicitly created to insulate law and justice from the direct will of the public.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#142

Post by cmurf »

School-Cotton wrote: post #42
solomonb wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He can't run again.

Why not? Because a piece of paper says he’s not allowed to? Pieces of paper say a lot of things; sometimes they’re followed, sometimes not.

If that piece of paper isn't being followed, what are the rules of the game? And are you agreeing that force does settle it? Should it?

John Adams might agree with you though. He said the constitution was intended for a moral (and religious) people. Maybe Americans are simply out of virtue, and don't deserve the Constitution anymore?

Sounds pretty expensive.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#143

Post by sepositus »

I'm still scratching my head at how some people are surprised by this overreaction. It seems a lot of people think the current fawning over authoritarianism came out of a vacuum. All of the sudden a majority of America came out of stasis and flocked to the polls to elect a dictator.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#144

Post by jfengel »

mptest wrote: post #56
jfengel wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are already long past the point of no return. He is the manifestation of a popular will. Even if he vanished tomorrow, those voters will remain. They will not be daunted by an electoral setback. They control the Supreme Court, and will for decades. They control a majority of state legislatures -- which control how voting and districting work. We've been past the point of no return since 2016. If you still had hope…

[flagged]

The attitude of "you won't make it better so we'll make it much, much worse" is the reason we're past the point of no return.

Actually making things better is hard. A lot of people legitimately disagree with Bernie Sanders. He simply does not have majority support.

For the rest of my life, the Democrats' policy is going to be "trying to get back the rights you lost in 2024”.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#145

Post by russdill »

quotemstr wrote: post #121
starchild3001 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government censors and preferential treatment are no match for a social network deciding what to allow on their platforms. Not even close. One is a free market and free association (you know there are many alternative platforms these days?). The other is serfdom.

Don't pretend the government didn't use its power and influence to pressure ostensibly private social networks to censor true information and sincerely held opinions. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/zuckerberg-says-the-wh...

So the government "expressed a lot of frustration" and meta eventually agreed... And says they would make a different decision in the future, making it clear that taking down the information was a voluntary choice.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#146

Post by mattnewton »

mikeyouse wrote: post #105
mattnewton wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 22nd amendment was passed after that though. FDR was seen as getting America out of the Great Depression and navigating America through WW2 successfully. Oh and alcohol became legal again so you could celebrate the roaring manufacturing economy and military victories with a beer. Trump is no FDR.

He said today he was serious about seeking a 3rd term and has multiple ways to do so... it would be absolutely foolish to pretend like 'norms' or the Supreme Court would constrain him. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-third-te...

I’m aware; I’m mostly saying the third term of FDR is not really “precedent” given the degree of popular support FDR enjoyed and the lack of the 22nd amendment at the time.

Trump seeking a third term will be out of the ordinary, and if he were to “win” the election and be recognized as the president, it would mean the end of the constitution. And that could happen.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#147

Post by mikeyouse »

mattnewton wrote: post #146
mikeyouse wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said today he was serious about seeking a 3rd term and has multiple ways to do so... it would be absolutely foolish to pretend like 'norms' or the Supreme Court would constrain him. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-third-te...

I’m aware; I’m mostly saying the third term of FDR is not really “precedent” given the degree of popular support FDR enjoyed and the lack of the 22nd amendment at the time. Trump seeking a third term will be out of the ordinary, and if he were to “win” the election and be recognized as the president, it would mean the end of the constitution. And that could happen.

Yeah that's fair - I don't think he'd be elected via a popular uprising of support. It's a very different scenario that has my worried.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#148

Post by vlovich123 »

quotemstr wrote: post #121
starchild3001 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government censors and preferential treatment are no match for a social network deciding what to allow on their platforms. Not even close. One is a free market and free association (you know there are many alternative platforms these days?). The other is serfdom.

Don't pretend the government didn't use its power and influence to pressure ostensibly private social networks to censor true information and sincerely held opinions. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/zuckerberg-says-the-wh...

Given the severe whiplash that all the billionaires have had towards Trump, don’t assume that:

A) the Trump administration isn’t doing the exact same thing

B) the media companies are painting a totally honest picture of the kind of government pressure vs showing loyalty to Trump by supporting his narrative.

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#149

Post by slowhadoken »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #108
slowhadoken wrote: post #97

I can’t remember anyone respecting mainstream US news for the last 30+ years. Aren’t most news agencies, directly or indirectly, owned by BlackRock, State Street, or the Vanguard Group? That’s a real question.

> Aren’t most news agencies, directly or indirectly, owned by BlackRock, State Street, or the Vanguard Group? That’s a real question It’s a stupid question easily dismissed with a modicum of research. (Most papers aren’t public.)

Example (using “a modicum of research): MSNBC -> NBCUniversal News Group -> Comcast Corp (and Vivendi) -> The Vanguard Group (largest shareholder).

Re: How each pillar of the First Amendment is under attack

#150

Post by kristopolous »

uoaei wrote: post #100
sega_sai wrote: post #78

As a person who lived in the States for a bit, and listened to a lot of news, I remember always this almost fawning over the Founding Fathers, checks and balances and great American constitution. It is remarkable, how easy it all goes, and most people don't do anything (i.e. out of 100 top law firms, only a handful joined the lawsuit against the government, etc.)

The people fawning and the people rejecting the Founders' intentions are two separate groups of people. Media is the practice of including and excluding voices, and there are distinct trends over time of representing one or another set of voices.

They're the same ultra-nationalists. I just did a quick twitter search for "founding fathers". Here we have, in order:

People tab:

"I love our founding fathers": https://x.com/Stephan73992604

"Founding Fathers daily": https://x.com/FFoundersDaily

Someone with [heart] founding fathers: https://x.com/JKernerOT

Top tweets:

Rush Limbaugh: https://x.com/LimbaughLegacy/status/1906424705336180913

"ThePatrioticBlonde": https://x.com/ImBreckWorsham/status/1904301594717651038

And an actual anti-semite: https://x.com/GnoticeUs/status/1906465034823499806

And the most recent:

https://x.com/SwampFox1795/status/1906554560094576889 https://x.com/tablewithannie/status/1906554512472736060 https://x.com/jp_peter51132/status/1906555671040102769

The ultra-nationalists love national myth and imagery. Always have. See the picture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_Nazi_rally_at_Madison_Squ...

Displays of nationalism and patriotism is mostly just a disciplining tactic by authoritarians who want unquestioning loyalty simply by displaying superficial symbols and gestures.

It's a way to claim the authority of the dead, to manufacture legitimacy through association. So now you're questioning the flag as opposed to the person waving it telling you what to do.

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