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IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

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Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#31

Post by paulsutter »

jobu wrote: post #26
paulsutter wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The memo does nothing to establish whether Samsung is infringing patents. But this is just the sort of thing that sways juries. And trials are about juries. So yes, this is how the system works. Both sides putting in enormous effort over admissibility of minor documents, outcomes swayed by minor missteps.

I think the iPhone sketch with a Sony label was far more damning to Apple than this memo is to Samsung. ( http://www.phonearena.com/news/Samsung-claims-Apples-iPhone-... )

Jury-impacting, yes. Relevant to patent infringement, no.

You're right that it's a great parallel and perhaps even more so.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#32

Post by Terretta »

jobu wrote: post #26
paulsutter wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The memo does nothing to establish whether Samsung is infringing patents. But this is just the sort of thing that sways juries. And trials are about juries. So yes, this is how the system works. Both sides putting in enormous effort over admissibility of minor documents, outcomes swayed by minor missteps.

I think the iPhone sketch with a Sony label was far more damning to Apple than this memo is to Samsung. ( http://www.phonearena.com/news/Samsung-claims-Apples-iPhone-... )

Except this was not a Sony product being "slavishly copied". That mockup was a Apple design based on some Sony design theory remarks. Moreover, the black rectangle rounded corners Sony product discussed in those remarks was Sony's take on Apple's iPod:

http://www.blogcdn.com//media/2012/08/walkman8212.jpg

None of those products (iPod, Walkman, iPhone) would be confused for the other.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#33

Post by [deleted] »

jobu wrote: post #26
paulsutter wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The memo does nothing to establish whether Samsung is infringing patents. But this is just the sort of thing that sways juries. And trials are about juries. So yes, this is how the system works. Both sides putting in enormous effort over admissibility of minor documents, outcomes swayed by minor missteps.

I think the iPhone sketch with a Sony label was far more damning to Apple than this memo is to Samsung. ( http://www.phonearena.com/news/Samsung-claims-Apples-iPhone-... )

[deleted]

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#34

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

paulsutter wrote: post #31
jobu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the iPhone sketch with a Sony label was far more damning to Apple than this memo is to Samsung. ( http://www.phonearena.com/news/Samsung-claims-Apples-iPhone-... )

Jury-impacting, yes. Relevant to patent infringement, no. You're right that it's a great parallel and perhaps even more so.

Jury impacting? No.

They've been excluded from the trial - Samsung's lawyers were late in submitting them.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#35

Post by vibrunazo »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #23
vibrunazo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what benefit accrues to someone who does great design or R&D or produces great art if it can just be immediately copied by someone who doesn't have to make the investment in time or money. If you assume that everything Apple invented was trivial to copy. Then even then, Apple was still the richest company in the whole planet before having ever bothered that anyone copied them. The richest company in the whole plane…

I don't assume that at all, it's why I say a one size fits all approach makes no sense. Different things have different costs to develop, different value, different life span, different barriers to duplication and so on. Some of the things Apple have been granted patents to they'd have done if they had no protection at all, others they may not have bothered with. But it's easy to look at the success of the iPhone and…

With consumer demand in mind. Don't you agree that if an invention didn't see the light of day, doesn't that mean there wasn't a market for it in the first place? Then why does it matters if that invention wasn't put in market, if consumers didn't want it in the first place? Remember we're not trying to give benefits for inventors for no reason. We're trying to give consumers something they want. We're not trying to throw money at inventors to invent random stuff no one cares about. We're trying to create cool new things for consumers. If there is no consumer demand for an invention, why would consumers care if the invention didn't make it to market?

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#36

Post by raganesh »

vibrunazo wrote: post #14
metatronscube wrote: post #2

The simple fact is that before the iphone, many 'smart' phones were complicated horrible devices (badly designed from a hardware point of view) with very poor UI/UX. Then after the iphone they were all like the iphone in some way or another. If you ask any non-technical person out there they will say the same. The iphone set the benchmark. So I can understand why apple feels like folk are just ripping them off at tim…

What would be better for the users? Assuming the iPhone was better than what came before. Which action from incumbents would be best for users? a) Do not copy the iPhone. Make old ugly phones. (What blackberry did) Now users are stuck with old ugly phones. b) Make something different, not because it's better, but only for being different's sake. (what windows phone did) Forces users to adapt to something new instead…

You are the founder of evolup.com. Let us say your product/service becomes a huge success. Seeing your success, existing social games developers want to do the same.

Which action from those existing developers would be best for users?

a) Do not copy your product/service. Continue doing things the old way.

b) Make something different, not because it's better, but only for being different's sake. Forces users to adapt to something new instead of using what they're already used to.

c) Embrace the innovation. Put all that's good about your product/service in their offering. Then iterate through it and improve upon it. Now users have the best of both worlds, they have the brand new innovation, in a format they're used to. And taking benefit from next iterations improved from it.

So where does your preferred option (c) leave you in this scenario? Would you whole-heartedly welcome another player "embracing your innovation"?

If that happens to me, I'll lose all motivation to innovate any further. What is the point after all?

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#38

Post by [deleted] »

huggyface wrote: post #30
metatronscube wrote: post #2

The simple fact is that before the iphone, many 'smart' phones were complicated horrible devices (badly designed from a hardware point of view) with very poor UI/UX. Then after the iphone they were all like the iphone in some way or another. If you ask any non-technical person out there they will say the same. The iphone set the benchmark. So I can understand why apple feels like folk are just ripping them off at tim…

Before Android, the iPhone was a horribly complicated device with broken, almost useless notifications, no cloud functionality, and a need to tether off of a master PC to do anything of consequence (updates, initial setup, etc). Every device learns from every other. I used Android above but of course it learned from WebOS among others. Further this notion that the iPhone spurred on a lot of changes that were already…

[deleted]

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#39

Post by programminggeek »

So, a friend of mine years ago after the iPhone came out purchased a Samsung pre-Android "smartphone". He bought it because it "looked like an iPhone" and did smartphone things like the internet and mp3's (sort of).

He quickly realized that it was NOT an iPhone or even a very smart smartphone.

Since you don't always get to use the phones in stores, you don't always know what you're buying. If it "looks like an iPhone" and has the same feature list, to many people it's the same basic device, just like most people do with appliances, cars, tv's, computers, etc.

Samsung made a lot of sales based on the fact that they looked and sold themselves as an iPhone look/workalike device.

Re: IPhone caused "crisis of design" at Samsung

#40

Post by gnaritas »

spartango wrote: post #25
bryanlarsen wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. constitution makes it quite clear that intellectual property exists for the benefit of citizens, to promote the advancement of useful knowledge and discoveries.

Eh, from a direct reading its not that clear: From Article 1, Section 8: Congress shall have the Power to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries. I guess it's fair to say that 'the Progress of Science' is for the benefit of citizens, but there's definitely cutouts for the benefits of inven…

Looks pretty clear to me.

> Congress shall have the Power to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts,

The goal or motive.

> by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.

The means by which the goal is achieved. The benefit to authors and inventors are a means to and end, don't confuse the means for the motive.

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