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I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#661

Post by AnthonyMouse »

miki123211 wrote: post #446
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still not clear how this requires Apple to do anything or why it should have anything to do with any cloud service. The IMEI is burned into the phone. They should definitely make it hard to change the IMEI; but they do. If the phone is stolen then the IMEI gets reported as stolen and anyone who tries to activate the phone with a wireless carrier gets caught. Why does Apple or Google need to inconvenience people…

Stolen Imeis aren't always exchanged between carriers, much less internationally. Even if that wasn't the case, as long as there were at least a few decently-sized countries not plugged into the system, that's where the thieves would sell all their devices. Stolen Apple devices are still usable for parts (which is why parts pairing is not always a bad thing), and you can sometimes phish the Apple ID credentials from…

> Even if that wasn't the case, as long as there were at least a few decently-sized countries not plugged into the system, that's where the thieves would sell all their devices.

It still limits the market where they can be sold, because even there the customer doesn't actually want a stolen device. What if that country starts blocking them, or they want to travel anywhere that does? They could even get arrested.

It also requires the thieves to have a network to transport them there, vs. individual petty thieves who would otherwise be selling them locally.

> Stolen Apple devices are still usable for parts (which is why parts pairing is not always a bad thing)

Parts pairing is still a scam. They could check the part against a stolen device list without refusing to pair with parts from third party OEMs or first party non-stolen parts from other regional markets.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#662

Post by AnthonyMouse »

kube-system wrote: post #539
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this the same problem either way? The enterprising criminal can take a low level job at Apple rather than a low level job at a carrier, which is presumably one of the reasons it hasn't actually worked. And if the problem is that each country is using a different IMEI blacklist then that seems like an obvious thing to fix. There are already treaties and agreements which is how the global phone network operates t…

> The enterprising criminal can take a low level job at Apple rather than a low level job at a carrier To my knowledge, Apple has not had any insider compromise of activation lock. This is why criminals try to phish the credentials from the victim instead.

> To my knowledge, Apple has not had any insider compromise of activation lock.

First they would have to get caught.

> This is why criminals try to phish the credentials from the victim instead.

Either method would be effective and not every criminal would have access to an insider, or they would have to pay off the insider for each device and then still prefer to phish the customer if possible to avoid paying the bribe.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#663

Post by DanielHB »

phkahler wrote: post #657
DanielHB wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you afford a bluetooth chip you can definitely definitely afford a CPU that can push 2-5mb HTML files through it in reasonable time (you can pre-gzip it) and some flash storage (which you probably already need if you are any kind of metrics over time). It could be hard to encode JSON messages dynamically for the actual data to show in the web application, but you _can_ use other protocols from a browser too (CBOR…

>> If you afford a bluetooth chip you can definitely definitely afford a CPU that can push 2-5mb HTML files through it in reasonable time Maybe not. I'm using a micro controller with specific peripherals and ADC requirements for a high speed control system. This has less RAM and flash that you can probably get away with for a web server. We'd have to add a bluetooth radio chip, but I hear those go for well under $1.…

Yes running a full blown web server with HTTP support requires a bigger CPU and RAM, but don't need a lot of RAM or CPU to stream an HTLM file through blutooth from flash storage. Serving data over blutooth for that HTML application would need some custom stuff (because it would go over blutooth and JSON-encoding for messages would probably require too many resources). My point is that it is definitely possible to serve a HTML file over blutooth, render it in a app through an WebView and have the app communicate to the device over blutooth without putting a beefy CPU in there.

The product I worked on the bluetooth chip was more expensive than the CPU if memory serves me right and we did something similar. But I am not a board designer or procurement expert.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#664

Post by rightbyte »

RandomBacon wrote: post #655
RandomBacon wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spyware, and asbestos free! ("Sugar, Free Donuts" - The Simpsons)

D'oh! I realize now, I should have wrote it as: Spyware and asbestos, free!

Heh ye was trying and failed to get the original joke.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#665

Post by ekianjo »

brewdad wrote: post #302
ekianjo wrote: post #292

> We don't have 1.5 hours every night to spend hand-washing dishes (not to mention the water bill!). Where is that bizarre conception that washing dishes by hands ends up wasting more water? If anything it's the other way around.

Nope. A modern dishwasher uses 2-3 gallons per load. If your dishwasher has Eco modes or a half-cycle mode, you can use even less. A typical kitchen faucet will deliver 2 gallons per minute. If you run your faucet for longer than that, and most people absolutely will, you are wasting water by hand washing.

> you are wasting water by hand washing.

that depends entirely how you hand-wash your dishes. There is not a single way to do it.

> A modern dishwasher uses 2-3 gallons per load

Maybe, but then you have to factor that the quality of the rinsing has nothing to do with hand-washing. I'd prefer my plates without traces of detergents.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#666

Post by m4tthumphrey »

geerlingguy wrote: post #89
m4tthumphrey wrote: post #51

I purposely spend a lot of time ensuring that an appliance (such as dishwasher, fridge, oven etc) has no connectivity before I purchase. Even if it misses out on some of the “better features”. Surely when all appliances go down this route it will not last long, purely down to the amount of breaches that will inevitably occur. Not to mention the backlash.

We've had this with TVs for like 3 years now... though when they do terrible things, they don't turn off a home's heat or start fires, usually.

At least theres a valid reason for a TV to be connected though.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#667

Post by sockaddr »

schobi wrote: post #338
tzs wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had sort of the opposite situation. I needed a new washer and all the top rated ones according to Consumer Reports included WiFi. I asked at Home Depot if the one I was thinking of getting, an LG WM3400CW, required me to actually use the WiFi and they said no. I used it for a few weeks without ever even trying to set up WiFi and everything was fine. Then I found at that when you set up an LG washer for WiFi you can…

Wouldn't it be great if a universal standard existed for devices sending their diagnosis via audio? If there is a microcontroller and a beeper in there anyway, at only the extra cost of internal memory? Instead of a modem-type modulation and a speaker, make use of the bare minimum piezo beepers and send something that is universally understood? All of that without FCC, no extra hardware cost, no backchannel und thus…

Could even be made to sound something like R2D2

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#668

Post by saaaaaam »

ryandrake wrote: post #158
dzhiurgis wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say I see much appeal for dishwasher being online for myself, but some people live their lives differently. Perhaps this is a shared dishwasher in student house where time is tight (applies to clothes washer). Perhaps you want to fire it when power is cheap. Perhaps you want it to start automatically when you left house. Finally - adjusting settings is easier via phone UI or voice. It kinda lame so many peopl…

All of these use cases can be achieved without requiring a manufacturer-run Internet-connected cloud service. I don't think this is a lack of imagination. Personally, I would love network-connected appliances that could be controlled and automated over my LAN. What I (and others) object to is the unnecessary round trip through the Internet to the manufacturer's server which will inevitably become the weakest link. If…

“Normal” people have no idea how to make that work though. They just want an app on their phone and not to have to buy something or maintain something or check something.

We could all run our own mail servers and there’s a good reason we don’t.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#669

Post by publicmail »

Fargren wrote: post #611
publicmail wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually no - I forgot about my Bosch dishwasher that uses capacitive touch buttons. Great idea for something that is often touched with wet fingers…

Sidetrack, maybe a silly question: Under what circumstances are you touching your dishwasher with wet fingers? Plates are dry when they go in and dry when they come out if you have a decent dishwasher. Capacitive buttons suck, but they are no worse in dishwashers than in any other appliance, in my usage at least

I like to rinse the plates off to remove larger food debris prior to putting them into the dishwasher. It’s not always necessary though.
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