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I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#531

Post by jjice »

btbuildem wrote: post #47

One thing I've learned when buying a full set of appliances couple of years ago: don't read consumer reports or reviews by randos on the internet -- instead, go to industry literature, and read reports by/for service and warranty providers. They have actual hard data on the types and frequency of problems across brands and models. But back to the main theme of the article: hell to the no was my initial attitude, and…

> don't read consumer reports or reviews by randos on the internet

I like the idea of using industry literature, but I think consumer reviews have value too. Much smaller purchase, but I was considering a new travel thermos and all the professional review were praising it. As soon as I pulled up some consumer reviews though, it was almost universal that after washing it for the first time, it smelled of garlic and soy sauce. Apparently this issue was around for at least three years (into today).

Not sure why that got passed over by all the professionals (maybe a lack of time spent with the product), but I was glad I read the consumer reviews as well.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#532

Post by pashadee »

fransje26 wrote: post #450
dorfsmay wrote: post #131

Bosch! I ran into the same situation. I specifically told the salesperson I didn't want wifi, and they told me it's only if you want it to operate from your phone. I was done installing it and got rid of the packaging by the time I read that it needs to use their website for some functions. Beside the fact that I doubt the store would take it back after using it for a week or two and havi go no packaging, I had no ti…

I will high-jack this top-rated comment to link to a comment further below. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43469297 This comment has a link to [0], explaining, in plain text: However, perhaps inline with the German attitudes towards privacy, the BSH "HomeConnect" appliances have a no-cloud mode built into their app without any hacks required to disconnect them from the internet. They do require a one-time conne…

“ In no-cloud mode the only way to interact with the devices is through their app, and an app isn’t always the most convenient way to interact with devices in the home.”

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#533

Post by jajko »

belorn wrote: post #99
klipklop wrote: post #56

I feel Jeff should have bit the bullet and just returned it. I know it's a waste of time, but these products have to be rejected at retail. Retailers will eventually get tired of the extra support burden and demand manufacturers drop stuff like this. They should all get hit with the open box problem from the returns.

Those products will earn profits to the producers after sale by bundling ads onto the app. Since the cost of producing the networking is less than projected sales, every unit will sooner or later have said networking and app. The app-only dishwashers will then out compete other dishwashers, slowly replacing all alternatives to app-only dishwashers outside "industry dishwashers" which will be app-free but cost 10x tha…

This ain't true at all. Do you have public no-password wifi? I presume not, then just don't enter wifi password in it and voila, no ads, no smart features, just plug that HDMI cable, switch input and run whatever you need from it for next 10 years.

But if you have the idea you want internet-connected TV but somehow 'not smart' (not even understanding what it means) but without ads then yeah good luck, they are baked into OS even if manufacturer didn't want them. And there is no such manufacturer I know of.

Although, I have cheap 75" TCL one and the only ads I see in past 2 years are those youtube itself inserts, while using all default apps that came with it (plus VLC for more video formats and generally better player). What other ads areas are there?

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#534

Post by torginus »

>my GE Amana dishwasher, it started having weird power issues, like the controls would just not light up unless I reset the circuit breaker for a few minutes

And they say EVs will outlast regular cars. On every piece of my home equipment, electronics failed before they developed mechanical issues.

Power electronics, especially capacitors, and high power switching elements don't have a great track record of reliability.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#535

Post by KomoD »

chrisBob wrote: post #501

If you want your lights or music connected to the internet, I can understand that, but NO HEAT PRODUCING APPLIANCES SHOULD BE CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET. If someone wants to burn down your house, make them come over and do it the old fashioned way. Do not let them do it remotely from another country.

I can't, why would you want your lights connected to the internet?

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#537

Post by torginus »

elzbardico wrote: post #468

By the end of the day, most kitchen and laundry appliances are a bunch of electric motors, pumps, solenoids, compressors, resistances, buttons, switches, and sensors. If this trend continues, we will have more and more people having bricked appliances as badly designed web services are inevitably sunset, as mobile apps without updates become incompatible with new versions of their phone OS and get delisted from App S…

That's why all good ol devices have electromechanical cams instead of electronics.

A bonus is that high power MOSFETs have a tendency to crap out and relays have a limited lifetime of a given number of switches guaranteeing that eventually youll need to throw out your whole, otherwise basically flawless devices due to dead electronics.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#538

Post by tpmoney »

agilob wrote: post #364
geerlingguy wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to take a stance like that, but the reality is I've already sunk about 6 hours total into the whole operation, and I have quite limited time for my home maintenance + improvement projects as it is (my bench currently has a new faucet set to fix the leaky bathroom faucet, as well as an exhaust fan to fix the broken one in our bathroom... and those are just the things that are currently broken , not the dozen…

>If taking a stand means sacrificing another 2-4 hours >Plus, now I have a long-term project to hack my dishwasher. So you'd rather waste more time, probably days or weeks, on a hack where Bosch can change implementation anytime, than return it?

People will make the choices that are rational for them. When your job is making content about hacking stuff, wasting 8 hours on hacking a dishwasher that both generates content and generates useful information for other people is a better use of time than wasting 4 hours returning a dishwasher in the hopes that you personally will be the straw that breaks the IoT camel’s back.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#539

Post by kube-system »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #393
meindnoch wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMEI blacklisting is not worldwide. The phone can still be used in other countries. Also, rogue carrier employees are selling IMEI blacklist removal as a side gig on the black market.

Isn't this the same problem either way? The enterprising criminal can take a low level job at Apple rather than a low level job at a carrier, which is presumably one of the reasons it hasn't actually worked. And if the problem is that each country is using a different IMEI blacklist then that seems like an obvious thing to fix. There are already treaties and agreements which is how the global phone network operates t…

> The enterprising criminal can take a low level job at Apple rather than a low level job at a carrier

To my knowledge, Apple has not had any insider compromise of activation lock.

This is why criminals try to phish the credentials from the victim instead.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#540

Post by kube-system »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #391
varjag wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When five years ago thieves broke into my sons' class locker room, they stole all android phones and cash but didn't bother to take iphones. So yes it works or at least it did back then.

This isn't really consistent with the theft statistics, e.g. 68.6% of stolen phones are iPhones[1] (in the UK where they have ~44% market share). This is presumably because of higher resale value etc., but the premise that nobody cares to steal them anymore evidently hasn't panned out. [1] https://www.loveitcoverit.com/news/changing-world/mobile-pho...

That could be because in many situations (crimes of opportunity) thieves don’t have the luxury of time to evaluate the model of a phone before they steal it. Google needs to step their shit up.
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