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The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

daringfireball.net

111–120 of 305 posts

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#111
post #16

It's certainly possible there's a backend flag on the site. But from the comments I see on Reddit, I suspect there may be a simpler explanation: a lot of people for some reason really dislike John Gruber and view him as someone who slavishly praises Apple. I'm a big John Gruber fan, and I don't think this is true in the slightest. I think he thinks carefully, forms his own opinions, and is very willing to intensely c…

>I'm a big John Gruber fan

Which is the problem and why I would guess that there is an automatic downranking to the domain, and why many knee-jerk flag entries from the site. Not that you specifically are a fan, but that a big enough minority of HN users would describe themselves as such and would submit and upvote entries from the site.

The bulk of DF entries could best be described as opinion/my-take type content. What does John think about screen sizes (e.g. 3.5 inches is the "sweet spot"), or Mark Gurman, the EU, etc.

Opinions generally do poorly here, for good reason. It is the junk food of content. It's easy and entertaining to read, especially if it agrees with our own notions so it's self-assuring, and if I think Apple are great I love to read opinions on why the EU are wrong with their DMA push, etc.

I would also argue it's the laziest content to write. The whole blog-rush were millions of people spinning up blogs to give their hot take on Current Zeitgeist Thing, but then it turned out that more people want to write that than read it so it faded away.

But because there were numbers of fans here, every Gruber opinion would shoot to the top of HN. It takes a tiny minority of HN users to make a story hit #1 -- right now the top four stories have barely dozens of upvotes -- so it would happen again and again and again, and people would click through and see an opinion about some thing and click back and they'd have no down arrow. Nor does the site weight "click throughs but didn't vote up". So people flag. Eventually, I presume, a domain downranking was applied.

Daring Fireball isn't the only domain like this. There are various other "I'm a fan of this guy!" type personalities that would constantly top HN despite the content arguably not deserving it. Content that if it came from anywhere else would be considered blog spam. Content that could literally be just a comment on HN.

There is another comment that opines that they want to see more daringfireball content on HN. I mean, they could just visit his site, or they could just hit https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=daringfireball.net, but what they really seem to mean is that they want everyone else to see more content from DF.

It's also ridiculous how people keep trying to make this an anti-Apple thing. Apple product announcements and technology releases do extremely well on here. Those have a real impact on the lives of most users of HN, whereas DF opinion entries don't.

>since I posted this, the article was flagged. Which I think may support the thesis

Whines about voting/moderation on HN almost always do extremely poorly on here. In this case DF has had multiple multi-hundred upvoted submissions on here over the past couple of months, and the entitlement of actually complaining that every random post doesn't do numbers absolutely deserves to be flagged.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#113
post #16

It's certainly possible there's a backend flag on the site. But from the comments I see on Reddit, I suspect there may be a simpler explanation: a lot of people for some reason really dislike John Gruber and view him as someone who slavishly praises Apple. I'm a big John Gruber fan, and I don't think this is true in the slightest. I think he thinks carefully, forms his own opinions, and is very willing to intensely c…

[flagged]

> Case in point: just the other day, he equated the EU's rulings about Apple's ecosystem to the dystopian short story Harrison Bergeron. Rah, rah, Goliath! Sis boom bah!

That was actually just over a year ago, and was in response to the US DOJ antitrust investigation (and didn't mention the EU at all). But, perhaps the fact that you remember it as "just the other day" is a hint that my suggesting "Harrison Bergeron" as a metaphor was uncomfortable but apt?

https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/03/23/harrison-berger...

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#114
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for bringing my attention to the comment guidelines, I'll try to keep to them in the future. I assure you, I do write here in good faith. I'm open to listening to those who oppose the EU's position on Apple's ecosystem. I draw the line at people comparing Apple's circumstances with those portrayed in Harrison Bergeron. Apple, its developer community and its app ecosystem are unlike anyone in that story, and th…

On a small point, from what I understand, I think full credits must be given to JG on MD it seems to be his own idea and implementation, my recollection of what I heard him discuss about it on his podcast in the past, was that Aaron Swartz helped him with some ideas and notes.

Correct.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case I agree with Gruber. Responding by blogging and citing is better for both websites.

Seems hypocritical to me. He admits wanting to see the comments here while not supporting them on his own site.

Can you blame someone for not having any hateful comments on their website? Even if 98% were positive, that 2% could annoy the hell out of you.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#116
post #54

It’s not just Gruber. As both a medium-high HN karma person and a Gruber fan I can say there is a definite reduction in the overall quality of discourse around Apple news versus general topics on HN. Much more knee jerk reactions. I theorize this is due to the overall startup versus incumbents focus as well as the hacker ethos of being opposed to more buttoned up closed systems meant for the general public. Like for…

> I can say there is a definite reduction in the overall quality of discourse around Apple news versus general topics on HN. Much more knee jerk reactions.

"Knee jerk reactions" presumes that Apple today behaves no differently than it did before when discussions "felt" more civil. That would be pretty far from the truth. Old Apple didn't piss off its developer community for the sake of protecting its walled garden, it didn't launch $3500 baubles nobody can afford and leave it to third party devs to fill the gaps. And the less said about Apple's foray into AI, the better.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#117
post #66
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too.

Agree! To be clear though it is not some backend thing by dang etc. but rather users with enough reputation to get the flag button are flagging your posts just because they don’t like you. That is the likeliest explanation.

But the only post on the recent submissions list that is actually marked "[flagged] is this one. If it's because enough high-karma users are clicking "flag", wouldn't they all show up as "flagged"?

https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=daringfireball.net

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#118

I would like to see more DF on HN. The something rotten in Cupertino was a shattering post—people in my circle who do not read DF were discussing and sending it around, and I work at a place where so many dang people read HN. So I agree with Gruber’s concern. I’m surprised this post too is already flagged.

[flagged]

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not being blacklisted or censored (see other comment with link to submissions). My suspicion: it's not relevant to the HN audience. DF is opinion pieces (mostly) about Apple. While I'm sure many DF readers use some Apple device(s), I suspect many (most?) DF readers do not care about "inside baseball"[0] for Apple. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_baseball_(metaphor)

Unlikely. “Rotten in Cupertino” was a bombshell and this forum should have been where the most insightful discussion took place. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43348891

A 'bombshell' to me would include some original journalism, details we weren't otherwise aware of. I read that article, it is basically an essay about a guy realizing that the pedestal he puts Apple on may need some recalibration, just because their AI product sucks. Apple Maps in 2011 sucked too, the company is not immune to putting out crap.

Re: The Website Hacker News Is Afraid to Discuss

#120
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How then do you explain DF being #3 from 2007-2021 and #72 from 2021-2025?

[flagged]

What exactly do you think my "tactics" were/are?

I've only ever submitted one article of my own to Hacker News. This one.

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