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European Cloud, Global Reach

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Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#91

Post by ivanr »

rustc wrote: post #85
scandox wrote: post #48

There's a lot of negativity and nit picking here. Upcloud are OK, Hetzner are better in my opinion for a lot of things. Nothing is perfect and European providers need to start somewhere. We all know there are tradeoffs and limitations but there's no need for a pile on.

I wouldn't call pointing straight up lies as "nit picking". This is from their FAQ: https://upcloud.com/products/zero-cost-egress > What exactly does zero-cost egress mean? > We are eliminating any concerns over data transfer fees. This means you’ll enjoy Internet traffic from our cloud services without any fear of accumulating costs. > How does this differentiate UpCloud from competitors? > By pioneering the zero-co…

Your comment doesn't match what's written on the very page you quote: https://upcloud.com/fair-transfer-policy

> Even if you exceed your monthly share, don’t worry, there are no excess fees. We will simply notify you of reaching the fair transfer policy and may reduce the bandwidth of your Cloud Servers to 100 Mbps for the rest of the month.

EDIT For completeness, there is also:

> If you believe to require more transfer per month than the Fair Transfer Policy provides, you may opt in to a paid transfer model at €0.01/GB. This affords you completely unlimited egress with no restrictions.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#92

Post by smiggels10 »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #77
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If you want to argue in good faith, you should share some facts instead of sending people to Google. I am closely watching German politics and still have no idea what are you talking about. Maybe my search query is wrong, maybe you are just making this up.

You can express your opinion about everything and everybody, including politicians, in public as much as you want in germany. But first paragraph in the german constitution is about human dignity ("Menschenwürde"), not freedom of speech. Which means, that when you insult somebody in public, it can happen that the affected person might sue you, and that a court might judge that you hurt the person's dignity. The consequence might be, that you have to pay a fee.

Recently there were cases of police operations at the homes of people who where accused of insulting a politician. Those operations where heavily criticized in the german public and followed by a court rouling, that judged that the police overreacted in those cases.

Somehow, in certain circles, this whole story gets shortened to "If you criticize the government in germany, your home gets raided by the police".

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#93

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

graemep wrote: post #28
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #14

Upcloud: 48 cores €1364/month Hetzner Dedi Cloud: 48 cores €288.49/month

You cannot really compare dedi to VPS pricing. Upcloud is similar to DO etc.

It's still cloud, billed by the hour, but Hetzner makes a distinction between shared cloud, where your cores can be oversubscribed, and dedicated cloud, where core is core.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#94

Post by mischa108 »

What difference does it make if 99% of your devices are still running on Microsoft Windows?

I'm a European DevOps engineer who specializes in Microsoft Azure, and I'd like to switch to European alternatives. But I struggle to see how we can ever become independent of Microsoft of all devices are still running Windows and 365 / Office.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#95

Post by ahofmann »

o_m wrote: post #29

What they don't mention is that some of their data centers are delivered by Equinix, an American company, so it doesn't matter that it is in Finland (same with Sweden and Poland). It is inherently insecure if you are trying to get away from USA. https://upcloud.com/data-centers

Your argument oversimplifies the issue and ignores critical nuances. While it's true that Equinix is a US-based company, the physical location of the data centers and the legal jurisdiction they operate under matter significantly. A data center in Finland, Sweden, or Poland falls under EU regulations, including the GDPR and local data protection laws, which impose strict requirements on data handling.

Equinix may provide the infrastructure, but US intelligence agencies can’t simply access data in these jurisdictions, unlike in the US, where providers are directly subject to laws like the CLOUD Act.

Even if we assume hypothetical US access to the hardware, modern encryption can somewhat ensure that raw data remains protected. The real risk isn’t just physical access—it’s legal and architectural control. A European provider using strong encryption and operating under EU law still offers far better privacy guarantees than a US-based alternative.

If your threat model includes avoiding US influence entirely, then yes, you might want a provider with no US ties whatsoever. But for most users, especially those seeking GDPR-compliant hosting, a European provider using Equinix infrastructure is still a meaningful step up from hosting directly with a US provider. Dismissing it as "inherently insecure" is unhelpful and disregards the real-world protections offered by EU jurisdiction and encryption.

The goal isn’t perfection but practical improvement. If you have better alternatives, share them constructively instead of undermining efforts to move away from US-dominated cloud services.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#96

Post by Yeul »

The Chinese set up their own intranet because history taught them the lesson to never trust a white man.

For Europe 100 years of globalisation cannot be undone so easily.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#97

Post by ivan_gammel »

janmo wrote: post #89
ivan_gammel wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment needs some serious fact checking. For example, Encrochat backdoor was authorized by judge, so there was a due process. And it was not an ordinary customer.

The fact that this was "due process" and "legal" makes the matter even worse IMO.

How? They busted huge criminal network and linked the app itself to a criminal gang. This is how the law enforcement should work. Every human right, including privacy, has limits and the purpose of the law and the due process to establish where those limits should be. It would be strange to expect that privacy of a human trafficker or drug dealer is protected more than the rights of the people they harm.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#98

Post by diggan »

onli wrote: post #47
graemep wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot really compare dedi to VPS pricing. Upcloud is similar to DO etc.

Hetzner behaves pretty much like DO, with servers that can be changed in the corresponding management panel. Or what aspect do you think is different?

> Hetzner behaves pretty much like DO, with servers that can be changed in the corresponding management panel. Or what aspect do you think is different?

Parent is comparing Hetzner Dedicated with Upcloud VPS, not Hetzner VPS with Upcloud VPS, I'm not sure you missed this.

But in case it's not a misunderstood question: Dedicated instances are "real" hardware you have full control over, for better or worse, while VPSes are managed by your provider, and are virtualized on top of "real" hardware.

Usually you have better performance and isolation (and higher price :) ) with dedicated servers compared to VPSes, but it also usually means less flexibility. Typically you cannot just "upgrade" a dedicated server to another instance without dealing with the migration yourself, while most VPS providers offer a one-click upgrade/downgrade of instances.

Edit: I see parent now edited their comment to say "Hetzner dedi cloud" where as when I wrote my comment it just said "Hetzner dedi" so seems I'm the one who misunderstood parents comment :)

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#99

Post by diggan »

ohgr wrote: post #22
rustc wrote: post #16

This is a strange page: https://upcloud.com/products/zero-cost-egress There's "zero cost egress" mentioned all over the page but the limits on https://upcloud.com/fair-transfer-policy are comparable to other hosts like DigitalOcean: the cheapest 7 EUR VPS has a limit of 1TB of bandwidth. (For comparison, Hetzner offers 20TB on their EU VPS for under $5.) > Say goodbye to unpredictable egress costs and hello to our ze…

Yeah they’re going bankrupt in a couple of months.

Why, exactly? Cloud providers don't pay per GB themselves, since they make their own peering agreements, and the only reason we users end up paying $/GB in transfer is because people end up paying for that premium when companies offer it.

It doesn't have to be like that, and it seems like this provider agrees with the idea of not upselling $/GB transfer costs, since they themselves don't pay it like that either.

I'm curious to see how it goes, as others mentioned, they're not the first (nor will be the last) to offer this no-nonsense pricing scheme.

Re: European Cloud, Global Reach

#100

Post by jajko »

perks_12 wrote: post #49
jajko wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The changes happening in US are not going anywhere, and they haven't even properly started with them. Nobody knows the future but one thing is clear and set in stone - trust has been broken. If you have any life or relationship experience, you know trust is always hard to build and easy to lose. Its extremely hard and lengthy to build again once it has been shattered (which it has been already). Stab in the back is r…

> trust has been broken By what? Tariffs? We have known about NSA spyops for more than a decade now, with actual impact on our tech. Nobody cares. But now that trump is in office, we suddenly have an issue with the US? Ridiculous.

No, by arbitrarily shutting down US military hardware on bipolar whims of a single person. You know, ie F'35s costing tens of billions becoming useless in real war very quickly. If a country can't protect its airspace its game over. Or by throwing whole Ukraine under the bus. Or by stating US won't protect NATO allies if they don't contribute 2,3,5% or whatever is the current number du jour. Or invading its closest allies... how fucked up is that, tell it to anybody a decade ago and you would get laughed at for being a conspiracy crank.

NSA findings are an afterthought in all this, we talk about existential threats with literal sworn enemy at our doors right now willing to capture, murder and steal all it can and stating it semi-constantly.

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