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Crew-9 Returns to Earth

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Re: Crew-9 Returns to Earth

#681

Post by n4r9 »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #589
pavlov wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that justify blatant lies?

What "blatant lies" though? The question hasn't really been answered. The user wrote: >Exploiting and lying about the monumental efforts of a pioneering industry for cheap political points I don't know what this means. When someone tells a blatant lie, it would be easy to quote them for a start. What 'monumental effort' was lied about? If it's about Boeing then I have to say I too think the company is doing a terribl…

I didn't personally use the word "blatant", but when I said "lying" I was referring to claims that:

* The Biden administration either forgot about or deliberately chose to leave astronauts in space for political reasons.

* Trump's request accelerated the decision to bring the astronauts home.

"Monumental efforts" was a more general comment about the space industry, including the activities of both NASA and SpaceX. Bringing astronauts home from space when equipment has gone faulty is a challenge I do not envy whatsoever. For Trump to claim credit in the venture is bordering on obscene.

Re: Crew-9 Returns to Earth

#682

Post by sanderjd »

johndhi wrote: post #674
sanderjd wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, "no one wants to outright explain what happened" is called "chilling effects" and is one of the explicit goals of an authoritarian regime like the one we have in the US now. Nobody wants to get fired and get death threats just for speaking plainly, so most people don't. Every once in awhile someone will decide it's worth the cost, but most people most of the time will decide it isn't.

Part of the irony here is that Elon Musk himself seems to be "speaking plainly" and receiving death threats for doing so. But I assume you'd prefer he didn't speak plainly...?

Funny how the richest person in the world feels less of a chilling effect than career staff at federal agencies!

What makes you think I'd prefer that he not speak plainly?

I'd certainly prefer that he:

1. Not break a bunch of laws while running the government (while having a totally unclear official role?).

2. Not use his control of twitter's algorithm to push his own political priorities.

3. Not use his wealth and bully pulpit to intimidate people (like judges) who don't just bow to whatever he wants.

But beyond that, I have absolutely no issue with him speaking plainly. And I think death threats are bad, always.

Re: Crew-9 Returns to Earth

#683

Post by sanderjd »

johndhi wrote: post #677
wcfields wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if someone is saying plainly "I'm going to ruin your life and critically endanger your health." then one should expect some pushback.

"Pushback" being death threats, yes? In what ways is Elon ruining lives and critically endangering health?

Oh this is an easy one! Ruining lives by firing lots of people while destroying the economy, and endangering health by doing things like eliminating Ebola prevention funding and totally screwing up the NIH health research structure.

Re: Crew-9 Returns to Earth

#684

Post by sophacles »

exodust wrote: post #643
sophacles wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When people find loopholes in the law to obtain grants, do you defend their actions because technically it didn't break the law? I don't defend their actions as moral. I think the loophole should be closed. I also think that they didn't commit fraud, as a loophole is by definition legal. As for all your nonsense about money being spent different than you would like: I get it, you're very upset. As I covered before:…

I'm not an American and I'm not expressing my likes or dislikes in this matter. I'm interested in seeing a healthy America. I'm interested in the details, drama, action, science and politics which trickles down or across to the rest of us in the world. You mention morality, but then say my "likes" are nonsense. You've even pushed me into the "rant" and "hate" zone! I'm trying to have a civil discussion about curious…

My entire line of commenting has been based in:

Prove fraud.

The post I originally replied to accused fraud. There is a legal definition of fraud - so prove it.

Everything you're going on about has nothing to do with fraud, and is 100% irrelevant since its not about evidence of fraud.

I mentioned morality of loopholes because to me your question looked like some sort of end-run around providing evidence of fraud. That's also why I clearly stated the difference between my opinions and the legal factuality.

Prove the claimed fraud.

If you want the law changed, that's fine - convince congress to do it. Even if the law changes, fraud must be proved under the laws that were relevant when the allegedly fraudulent event occurred.

So again - prove fraud (hint, i doubt you can no matter what your feelings are).

Re: Crew-9 Returns to Earth

#685

Post by culi »

DoesntMatter22 wrote: post #638
culi wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even today this topic is often brought up in rap lyrics. Quest's last album had a song called "The Space Program" which featured the hook: "There ain't a space program for niggas Yeah, you stuck here, nigga" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Space_Program_(song)

What a poet

That's a hook but yeah Tribe Called Quest is one of the most interesting groups in rap to listen to if you're listening for lyrical content

Re: Crew-9 Returns to Earth

#686

Post by carabiner »

AngryData wrote: post #672
carabiner wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, we selectively credit the engineers when a musk company has a success, then blame musk when there's a failure. So when Teslas have quality issues, we don't blame the manufacturing engineers and technicians; instead, we blame Musk who hand assembled every Tesla out there, right?

We know Tesla has the engineers needed to produce quality designs, but it is management that decided to cheap out on both production and quality control, and doesn't make parts easily available for repairs, which is part of the decision and policies Musk is in charge of. With SpaceX it could go on both sides just because the engineering for spacecraft designs and rockets is not really a solved problem unlike 95% of a…

Those were just two random examples. You're neglecting all of the good things about Tesla. The global charger network and plug standard, the push for automation. You think Musk had no part in those?

If you want to see bad management in rocketry, look at SpaceX's competitors.

Re: Crew-9 Returns to Earth

#687

Post by exe34 »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #675
exe34 wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he gets paid for the contracts he already has and for new ones (billions in corporate welfare). some government agencies tried to investigate his companies and contracts (which would cause a loss of handouts from the government), so he bought his way into the government and fired everybody who was investigating his companies. does that help?

So then he is not getting paid for DOGE. Glad we cleared that up between us.

that's a cartoon level understanding of the world. thieves don't always wear a Zorro eye mask and carry a burlap sack with a dollar sign.

Re: Crew-9 Returns to Earth

#688

Post by tyg13 »

culi wrote: post #562
piokoch wrote: post #276

There are certain historical inadequacies in the article. "That is, the Apollo Program brought the country together in the turbulent 1960s and helped make everyone feel good about the country" This certainly was not 100% true, as some communities protested against Apollo program [1], even though, overall, the progress it has caused helped eventually those communities as well. Nevertheless there were kind of bipartisa…

Even today this topic is often brought up in rap lyrics. Quest's last album had a song called "The Space Program" which featured the hook: "There ain't a space program for niggas Yeah, you stuck here, nigga" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Space_Program_(song)

I particularly like how they use `space` in two different ways, from Q-Tip's second verse:

   These notions and ideas and citizens live in space
   I chuckle just like all of y'all, absurdity, after all
   Takes money to get it running and money for trees to fall
   Imagine for one second all the people are colored, please
   Imagine for one second all the people in poverty
   No matter the skin tone, culture or time zone
   Think the ones who got it
   Would even think to throw you a bone?
   Moved you out your neighborhood, did they find you a home?
   Nah cypher, probably no place to
   Imagine if this shit was really talkin’ about space, dude
While the rich and powerful imagine of blasting off to outer space, advancing the frontiers of humanity, boldly going where no man has gone before -- the poor still find themselves squabbling for just a little space on the planet we all call home. Imagine if 'space program' really meant 'space' program?

Re: Crew-9 Returns to Earth

#689

Post by n4r9 »

johndhi wrote: post #674
sanderjd wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, "no one wants to outright explain what happened" is called "chilling effects" and is one of the explicit goals of an authoritarian regime like the one we have in the US now. Nobody wants to get fired and get death threats just for speaking plainly, so most people don't. Every once in awhile someone will decide it's worth the cost, but most people most of the time will decide it isn't.

Part of the irony here is that Elon Musk himself seems to be "speaking plainly" and receiving death threats for doing so. But I assume you'd prefer he didn't speak plainly...?

I guess it depends how you define "plainly". Musk is right at the forefront of spreading exaggerated or misleading claims. Condoms to Gaza, Power's 30M, tens of millions of dead people receiving social security. He's not new to it either - remember him alleging that the scuba diver who saved those Thai kids was a paedophile?

Re: Crew-9 Returns to Earth

#690

Post by class3shock »

indoordin0saur wrote: post #316
madeofpalk wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Elon really had that much to do with this.

Before he took his recent (regrettable) turn he did pour his heart and soul (and personal fortune) into SpaceX for over a decade. If it weren't for SpaceX we'd be relying on the incompetent monstrosities of Boeing or ULA.

ULA is not a "incompetent monstrosity" (Boeing yes sadly). The company is making good progress with Vulcan and if they were given the funds/time to design a reusable rocket they're probably one of the few companies that has the talent/experience to pull it off. Tony Bruno is maybe the only CEO of a large space company that is a hardcore engineer and has a passion for space. Would have been cool to see BO/ULA get combined under Tony's leadership but wasn't meant to be.
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