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The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

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Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#251

Post by laptopdev »

citizenpaul wrote: post #203
awongh wrote: post #84

I read a fair amount and I actually do research as leisure all the time, but I can’t stand these elitist and unoriginal think pieces about how much better and cooler this person’s habits are than yours. >> for the leisurely researcher, self-study must include the discipline’s foundational texts I feel like this person has some kind of dark academia aesthetic fetish that they need to hold onto to feel superior to ever…

I've been finding that digital only sources have been declining in quality for probably 5 years now. I have actually greatly reduced my reliance on them due to the fact that anytime HTTP is involved you add a layer of potential marketing obscuring the goal. I've been finding especially lately that I would have been better just getting a book. In fact I've greatly increased by personal library after years of stagnatio…

Everytime I hear ebook my brain pictures https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ewok#/media/File%3AWicket_W_Wa...

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#252

Post by mangomountain »

Swizec wrote: post #242
PaulHoule wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's had quite a few dealings with animals (the family business is a horse farm) my interpretation is that human psychology is basically animal psychology with a "language instinct" bolted on as a peripheral. You might very well misinterpret an animal's experience or motives but it is not just mistaken "anthropomorphism" but could just be the same kind of misunderstanding you might have about another pers…

> I believe all birds and mammals have a pretty good "theory of mind", it's just hard to do an experiment to prove it Our pet bird (sun conure) actively tries to lie and mislead when he's doing something naughty. Like he will go into the pantry to steal treats and quickly fly out pretending he wasn't in there when he hears you approaching. This indicates he has some theory of mind. He has to understand there's a diff…

Sun conjures are so smart this makes me smile :)

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#253

Post by citizenpaul »

spudlyo wrote: post #229
citizenpaul wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been finding that digital only sources have been declining in quality for probably 5 years now. I have actually greatly reduced my reliance on them due to the fact that anytime HTTP is involved you add a layer of potential marketing obscuring the goal. I've been finding especially lately that I would have been better just getting a book. In fact I've greatly increased by personal library after years of stagnatio…

> However this will absolutely be poisoned over time because marketing will always creep in until it dominates the HTTP source. I often remind myself that we are in the golden age of LLMs, like the pre-enshitification days when Google would nearly always return relevant and useful results, and I felt like with access to the Internet I could learn anything.

This exactly mirrors my expectations.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#254

Post by tpoacher »

wantless wrote: post #147
tpoacher wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have exactly the same experience, and in fact, I'm slowly starting to lose interest in the 'nerdy' books too. However, I don't necessarily think the problem is books. I think the problem is 'time', and how reading has evolved in my life to be less about "the enjoyment of the action of reading" into "the necessity of acquiring the information" (even if that 'necessity' is intended for 'leisure' / 'pleasure'). It's a…

I have begun to recognize a sense of restlessness in myself that prompts me to optimize for information, as you have said, and I think I can begin to name it: anxiety due to withdrawal. It is illuminating to have once been a smoker because the feeling is quite similar. That our tastes have changed is due at least in part to the addiction of information. And a solution, at least in part, is to accept the pain of withd…

Interesting insight. I'd heard people talking about 'information addiction' before, but I'd never considered it quite how you just described it. But you're right, makes perfect sense.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#255

Post by citizenpaul »

SamPatt wrote: post #217
citizenpaul wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been finding that digital only sources have been declining in quality for probably 5 years now. I have actually greatly reduced my reliance on them due to the fact that anytime HTTP is involved you add a layer of potential marketing obscuring the goal. I've been finding especially lately that I would have been better just getting a book. In fact I've greatly increased by personal library after years of stagnatio…

The majority of online content can decrease in quality while LLMs can increase in quality. If the decrease in quality is noticeable to you, then it can be accounted for by future model makers. We already know that quantity isn't everything. The average coming down only creates a stronger contrast for the high-quality work. As a writer, I'm excited about having LLMs available to help me. They're already indispensable.

I'll give an example a while ago I wanted to learn a new'ish tech. I did some research LLM and search which led me to an online course. I figure eh $20 is probably worth it to hear from someone that has used it.

After a couple of chapters I realized the author had no idea what they were doing and were literally reading page for page word for word from the official documentation. Valueless Trash masquerading as information. We've only just started down this forever merry-go-round of AI slop regurgitating and obscuring the often free source material for nothing more than profit off other peoples work.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#256

Post by aaron695 »

awongh wrote: post #84

I read a fair amount and I actually do research as leisure all the time, but I can’t stand these elitist and unoriginal think pieces about how much better and cooler this person’s habits are than yours. >> for the leisurely researcher, self-study must include the discipline’s foundational texts I feel like this person has some kind of dark academia aesthetic fetish that they need to hold onto to feel superior to ever…

[dead]

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#257

Post by bumby »

MisterTea wrote: post #221
PaulHoule wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's had quite a few dealings with animals (the family business is a horse farm) my interpretation is that human psychology is basically animal psychology with a "language instinct" bolted on as a peripheral. You might very well misinterpret an animal's experience or motives but it is not just mistaken "anthropomorphism" but could just be the same kind of misunderstanding you might have about another pers…

> As someone who's had quite a few dealings with animals (the family business is a horse farm) my interpretation is that human psychology is basically animal psychology with a "language instinct" bolted on as a peripheral. Growing up with cats and dogs all my life I 100% agree with this. That has caused me to look at animals as individuals I can't communicate with instead of lower life forms that are brainless sacks…

Where do you draw the line? Do you think dung beetles have emotions? Not being snarky, I just think it’s a difficult idea to pin down.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#258

Post by LennyHenrysNuts »

awongh wrote: post #84

I read a fair amount and I actually do research as leisure all the time, but I can’t stand these elitist and unoriginal think pieces about how much better and cooler this person’s habits are than yours. >> for the leisurely researcher, self-study must include the discipline’s foundational texts I feel like this person has some kind of dark academia aesthetic fetish that they need to hold onto to feel superior to ever…

If I have to use an LLM, then I don't want to learn it. I have no interest in having my "food" chewed for me.

I'll do it the way I always have - read, cogitate, experiment.

That's not to say I don't think others should use LLMs by the way, knock yourself out.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#259

Post by roarcher »

Swizec wrote: post #242
PaulHoule wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's had quite a few dealings with animals (the family business is a horse farm) my interpretation is that human psychology is basically animal psychology with a "language instinct" bolted on as a peripheral. You might very well misinterpret an animal's experience or motives but it is not just mistaken "anthropomorphism" but could just be the same kind of misunderstanding you might have about another pers…

> I believe all birds and mammals have a pretty good "theory of mind", it's just hard to do an experiment to prove it Our pet bird (sun conure) actively tries to lie and mislead when he's doing something naughty. Like he will go into the pantry to steal treats and quickly fly out pretending he wasn't in there when he hears you approaching. This indicates he has some theory of mind. He has to understand there's a diff…

I used to have a cat like this. He loved to drink out of the toilet bowl, which he knew he wasn't supposed to do. I would hear him lapping up the water and as I approached the bathroom he would quickly exit, almost but not quite running so as to not look too guilty, head held low and giving me a side eye like he was trying to see if I knew what he was doing in there.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#260

Post by ants_everywhere »

awongh wrote: post #130
mmooss wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's what you like to do, of course that's fine. If we are going to talk with each other about what we like to do, we need to agree on meaning. In my thinking, the definition of research is to find truth . As ultimate solutions to that goal, Wikipedia and LLM output lack sufficient accuracy and lack verifiability. Many find them useful as bibliographic tools that point us to accurate, verifiable sources. Also, r…

> In my thinking, the definition of research is to find truth > the primary sources; that's where the truth is I mentioned this elsewhere on the thread, but I also feel like the most influential primary sources are less important than secondary sources- if you read Marx, the social and political circumstances of his ideas are in the context of an industrial economy and just don't apply in the same way anymore. You ca…

With Marx the literature is basically religious in nature so reading his successors without reading Marx would be like reading religious commentaries on the bible without reading the original bible stories. There could be reasons to do that (e.g. modern text is easier to read), but you'd be missing a lot.

There are other writers who were writing before or at the same time as Marx on similar topics who were clearer in their thinking and their work is often surprisingly relevant even today.

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