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The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

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Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#161
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the primary sources; that's where the truth is Why is a primary source a better source for the "truth"? Often secondary sources have distilled the original rough ideas into more refined expressions of the original complex ideas. A secondary source will also have had more chances to catch any mistakes.

The secondary sources take the primary source facts (if the author is serious and honest) and add someone's subjective perspectives, etc. Those facts are the 'truths'. For more, look up reading on the scientific method and empiricism. I'm not disparaging all secondary sources; I read them too. But there's a reason serious research requires primary sources.

I think people are confused by the definitions of primary/secondary sources.

As an example, almost all textbooks are actually secondary sources. The primary source may be a journal article. And yes, often, those secondary sources are far superior than the primary sources. Insisting on reading all those journal articles as opposed to a good textbook is simply indulging in a fetish, IMO.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#162
post #120
post #84

I read a fair amount and I actually do research as leisure all the time, but I can’t stand these elitist and unoriginal think pieces about how much better and cooler this person’s habits are than yours. >> for the leisurely researcher, self-study must include the discipline’s foundational texts I feel like this person has some kind of dark academia aesthetic fetish that they need to hold onto to feel superior to ever…

Agree, OP is points to Thoreau, Sagan, Galileo - most people on the planet earth are not like that and those guys were heavily privileged. Doing personal fancy research was not available before as it is now. Even though one still has to be rather privileged to have time to dig through obscure details that don’t make him money.

> Agree, OP is points to Thoreau, Sagan, Galileo - most people on the planet earth are not like that and those guys were heavily privileged.

Sagan was heavily privileged? I mean, yes, he was born in the US and could afford to get a Bachelor's degree, but other than that, he was not particularly privileged.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#163
post #84

I read a fair amount and I actually do research as leisure all the time, but I can’t stand these elitist and unoriginal think pieces about how much better and cooler this person’s habits are than yours. >> for the leisurely researcher, self-study must include the discipline’s foundational texts I feel like this person has some kind of dark academia aesthetic fetish that they need to hold onto to feel superior to ever…

I didn't read the post yet, but

>> for the leisurely researcher, self-study must include the discipline’s foundational texts

It completely depends on the depth at which you are researching for leisure. If you like to do it to learn some stuff, just using LLMS, wiki and books is perfectly fine!

If you're trying to make a breakthrough in human understanding, it is useful to understand very very well the foundations. It is not required, sometime, another background is enough to see clearly some research issue.

But as you're doing research for fun, if you want to push the boundaries, having very strong foundational knowledge is awesome and very empowering.

Take for example the LLMs, you have many levels of comprehension that you may aim for (just an example):

- simply using occasionally (existance awareness)

- experimenting with prompts engineering (exploratory research)

- studying the neural architectures (understanding better what's going on)

- understanding how the architectures are validated (if they are...)

- finding limiting cases (deeper exploratory research)

- thinking about in under the perspective of bayesian/classical statistics (research at the normal mathematical/engineering level)

- going deep into characterizing the architectures in terms of manifolds, or any other suitable structure that you believe is true (deep fundamental research)

- opening up new questions about what can be learned and why (leading to another research field)

The first 3 are available inside a LLM, on Wikipedia and in books. The rest you need to fetch some papers. The more you go down the path, the more obscure the papers gets.

Up to the end, the last point, where you land in survey papers for the other field, and then you can start again with new questions. The good thing is that most of the fundamental research can be readily applied to understand the new field! It's like a jump start.

But at the end of the day, depending on which depth you want to do your leisure research, the deeper you go, the more foundation papers become important, not just from their content, but also the powerful ideas that can be transferred in other research projects.

Maybe.. One thing that is missing from what I say is that it's not about the quantity, or even the quality of the material you read. But it depends on engaging in deep thinking about it! Someone can spend his life reading and not become smarter, maybe only more knowledgeable.

I my opinion, deep thinking is maybe the most fun and useful skill in leisure research, as in paid research.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A people's history of the united states is a good one. Most history is written by the generals and leaders. This account is colored by the oft ignored people.

These days, Howard Zinn, Chomsky, and most other left wing intellectuals of yesteryear have lost their cultural power. It doesn’t help that most of these folks are 1. So sold into the “American intelligence bad” narrative that they look at every left wing crack point and act like nothing bad happened under them. Even Allende, the classic example of a “good Marxist” leader, was a total asshole and likely deserved to b…

“Postmodern Neomarxism” basically doesn’t exist outside of a few fringe academics. Recommend you read Derrida’s _Spectres of Marx_, which goes into detail about how dead academic Marxism was even in 1993 (spoiler: it’s even deader now). His hopes for a “New International” never materialized and died with him.

Even Žižek’s more recent _Too Late to Awaken_ is a depressing slog of an elegy, and he is the closest thing to a real “Neomarxist” you could ask for.

Relatedly, Foucault and Deleuze do not write anything remotely like Zinn. Comparing them is wholly meaningless, they’re playing entirely different games.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#166

Don't know about you guys, but reading has become more and more of a burden for me. It is as if -- I have greatly narrowed my interest such that most books are not interesting any more. Even the sci-fi and fantasy books, once I loved, lost their magic. Nowadays there are only two types of books that excite me: 1) those about software/hardware engineering, such as iWoz(I even bought a few Tom Swift JR books for my son…

I wonder if after you've read the classics and modern greats you have to start searching out and take chances on books you don't know. I also think people will happily walk away from a show or movie but for some reason won't walk away from a book. If you're 30% in and you hate it, just walk away.

> I also think people will happily walk away from a show or movie

I’m not so sure. I feel like people may walk away from a show in between seasons, when a new one comes out and they realise they aren’t interested anymore. But in the age of binge watching, it’s harder to realise “I’m not actually enjoying this” because each episode is made to be addictive.

With movies, my feeling is that even when people realise midway they’re not enjoying it, they experience sunk cost and will watch to the end hoping it gets better.

I remember (but I’m not finding) a This American Life segment about a woman who relished in exiting the movie theatre midway through a feature. It wasn’t seen as a common thing.

> but for some reason won't walk away from a book. If you're 30% in and you hate it, just walk away.

I completely agree. I’d even say you could do it sooner than 30%.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#167
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm paying more attention to an audiobook in my car than at a book in a busy place.

As long as you're paying more attention to the road than to your audiobook... That's the main reason I never got into audiobooks and podcasts. They engage my brain just enough to prevent multitasking, but not enough to stop a part of me from getting bored and restless. Similar to most work meetings when I'm not presenting or otherwise directly involved in specific topics under discussion. It's a pain.

> As long as you're paying more attention to the road than to your audiobook...

I am, that's why I hit "Rewind" on my audiobooks very often. But even though I'm "distracted" by the road, I find that I concentrate more on a (difficult) audiobook than the equivalent book. With a book, it's actually easy to zone out for a paragraph or two. With audiobooks, if I zone out, I feel quite lost very quickly. I need to rewind.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#168

I think reading is an essential skill, but we also need to get reading out of the pedestal. Because a lot of the time these arguments come across as some sort of literary elitism. Like if you're not ingesting information through reading, it doesn't count. This month I spent many hours listening to lectures on youtube about geopolitics on the Asian continent from the naval war college. Sure I could have read it, but n…

If there are alternative media that covers the material, by all means utilize them!

The reality is when you get deep enough in a topic, virtually all the content is available solely in text form. So I tell people that while it's fine to consume content in other formats, you have to make sure you are quite capable when it comes to reading.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#169
>>> for the leisurely researcher, self-study must include the discipline’s foundational texts

>I feel like this person has some kind of dark academia aesthetic fetish that they need to hold onto to feel superior to everyone else.

This is how you end up on the Crackpot Index. Thinking you created a theory of everything or a cold fusion device despite literally not knowing algebra or basic electrical engineering.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#170
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The secondary sources take the primary source facts (if the author is serious and honest) and add someone's subjective perspectives, etc. Those facts are the 'truths'. For more, look up reading on the scientific method and empiricism. I'm not disparaging all secondary sources; I read them too. But there's a reason serious research requires primary sources.

I think people are confused by the definitions of primary/secondary sources. As an example, almost all textbooks are actually secondary sources. The primary source may be a journal article. And yes, often, those secondary sources are far superior than the primary sources. Insisting on reading all those journal articles as opposed to a good textbook is simply indulging in a fetish, IMO.

> I think people are confused by the definitions of primary/secondary sources.

Sorry:

Primary - the actual evidence. The actual letter written by Jefferson; the ice core itself, etc. For example, if you are an historian writing about Jefferson, you actually travel to the archive and read Jefferson's letters and look through the other papers, etc. - the actual stuff.

Secondary - the journal article, the scholarly book, based on primary sources (without those, it's just nonsense)

Tertiary - textbooks, news reports, etc. about the secondary source

Higher order - blog posts, social media, etc.: usually they haven't seen the evidence, haven't read the journal article, may have read the news report but often only read another social media post ...

> Insisting on reading all those journal articles as opposed to a good textbook is simply indulging in a fetish, IMO.

WTF do you know about me or anyone else to judge their choices? Your ignorance of the need for direct knowledge of things shines through. Here, the primary source is me; having no primary source your assertion isn't even secondary, just nonsense. Enjoy 'research' on social media.

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