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The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

kasurian.com

151–160 of 290 posts

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#151
post #4

What a wonderful article! Thanks for sharing! I’ve been thinking a lot about how research — as both leisure and serious inquiry — is making a comeback in unexpected ways. One sign of that resurgence is the huge interest in so-called “personal knowledge management” (PKM) tools like Obsidian, Roam Research, or Notion. People love referencing Luhmann’s Zettelkasten method, because it promises to structure and connect sc…

> Community: sharing and testing ideas with others.

Where do you find community interested in serious amatuer research?

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of animals go out of their way to be seen. If it’s a pretty bird it’s most likely a male bird. Animals at play do appear to show off to each other. Orcas wear salmons as hats as if it was a fast fashion trend. I don’t think humans are unique in this regard at all.

These observations are interpretations of behavior viewed through human eyes. (What’s the concept of a “hat” to an orca?) Perhaps we interpret their behavior this way because it is our behavior.

As someone who's had quite a few dealings with animals (the family business is a horse farm) my interpretation is that human psychology is basically animal psychology with a "language instinct" bolted on as a peripheral.

You might very well misinterpret an animal's experience or motives but it is not just mistaken "anthropomorphism" but could just be the same kind of misunderstanding you might have about another person's experience or motives.

From time to time I see a paper proving that horses or dogs could do something that people who work with horses or dogs always believed they could do or that some bird or mammal has a "theory of mind" -- I believe all birds and mammals have a pretty good "theory of mind", it's just hard to do an experiment to prove it.

We've had a cardinal that has been coming to our window for a few years that we can't agree on naming "bad bird" or "noisy bird" that sets up a nest a few yards from a bird feeder and spends all day fighting it's own reflection in the glass. My interpretation, which could be wrong, is that it believes it is a very successful bird that has found an excellent nesting spot and finds meaning in its life by fighting off "competition" for its nest -- certainly it does not need to spend a lot of energy foraging and has the time and energy to peck at the window all day.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#154
post #91
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But with reading it's more of an active or deliberate choice. With listening or watching it "just happens" naturally as the medium progresses. I'm also a slow learner (and reader) so I think reading also suits me better because I allows me to control the pace better.

You've never gotten distracted while reading and then found that you've scanned over a bunch of text while thinking about something else?

It happened for sure! But it usually happens for a few words, maybe one or two sentences max.

I think mind wandering briefly is a different thing to what's being discussed here though.

Like, let's say I'm watching a video about a complex subject, in my case it's easier to accidentally gloss over knowledge gaps than it is when when reading about it.

It's also feels more practical to take notes or annotate stuff I'm reading about rather than stuff, and it's easier to "revisit" it once recall fails.

It's also generally more convenient to consume (ie I can consume it while commuting/traveling), etc.

However, as a counter point (since I've been doing lots of technical art recently) watching videos on some subjects can be useful, but I still pair it with reading to get a more in-depth understanding on the subjects involved

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#155

Don't know about you guys, but reading has become more and more of a burden for me. It is as if -- I have greatly narrowed my interest such that most books are not interesting any more. Even the sci-fi and fantasy books, once I loved, lost their magic. Nowadays there are only two types of books that excite me: 1) those about software/hardware engineering, such as iWoz(I even bought a few Tom Swift JR books for my son…

Sci-fi and fantasy suited me when I was young as they stretched my mind to possibility. The older and more cynical I have become, they're kind of just bullshit. I'd love to say their escapist but they fail even there as I my escapism increasingly requires a modicum of plausibility. I think there are still some books out there that might ring true in terms of seeing people and society for the way they are, but then th…

What you describe you want is, in a sense, the definition of 'serious' literature. A value of it is that it has real insight about real people and life.

A lot of people reject it - because of school/authority associations, because they didn't understand it in high school, for culture war reasons, etc. When you put all that aside and just read the book, it is what you describe - the 'great' writing offering soaring, beautiful, tranformative insight, the work of genius.

I think it's hard to understand without experience in the world and life - real responsibility, pressure, failure, success, real injury, healing, trauma, seeing evil and good in yourself - whatever your age. I'm not sure it's accessible for most high schoolers and often people don't try it again.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These observations are interpretations of behavior viewed through human eyes. (What’s the concept of a “hat” to an orca?) Perhaps we interpret their behavior this way because it is our behavior.

As someone who's had quite a few dealings with animals (the family business is a horse farm) my interpretation is that human psychology is basically animal psychology with a "language instinct" bolted on as a peripheral. You might very well misinterpret an animal's experience or motives but it is not just mistaken "anthropomorphism" but could just be the same kind of misunderstanding you might have about another pers…

How do you know the bird just isn't entertaining itself with its own reflection.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#157
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's what you like to do, of course that's fine. If we are going to talk with each other about what we like to do, we need to agree on meaning. In my thinking, the definition of research is to find truth . As ultimate solutions to that goal, Wikipedia and LLM output lack sufficient accuracy and lack verifiability. Many find them useful as bibliographic tools that point us to accurate, verifiable sources. Also, r…

> the primary sources; that's where the truth is Why is a primary source a better source for the "truth"? Often secondary sources have distilled the original rough ideas into more refined expressions of the original complex ideas. A secondary source will also have had more chances to catch any mistakes.

The secondary sources take the primary source facts (if the author is serious and honest) and add someone's subjective perspectives, etc. Those facts are the 'truths'.

For more, look up reading on the scientific method and empiricism.

I'm not disparaging all secondary sources; I read them too. But there's a reason serious research requires primary sources.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#158
post #130
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's what you like to do, of course that's fine. If we are going to talk with each other about what we like to do, we need to agree on meaning. In my thinking, the definition of research is to find truth . As ultimate solutions to that goal, Wikipedia and LLM output lack sufficient accuracy and lack verifiability. Many find them useful as bibliographic tools that point us to accurate, verifiable sources. Also, r…

> In my thinking, the definition of research is to find truth > the primary sources; that's where the truth is I mentioned this elsewhere on the thread, but I also feel like the most influential primary sources are less important than secondary sources- if you read Marx, the social and political circumstances of his ideas are in the context of an industrial economy and just don't apply in the same way anymore. You ca…

If you are researching economics, then Marx is a secondary (or higher order) source. The econmomic data used by Marx is primary.

If you are researching Marx the person or Marx's ideas, then [edit: Marx's writings would be primary sources, and then] what would you think of someone who only read others talking about Marx, but didn't read Marx's actual writings? It wouldn't make much sense for anything called 'research'.

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#159

Don't know about you guys, but reading has become more and more of a burden for me. It is as if -- I have greatly narrowed my interest such that most books are not interesting any more. Even the sci-fi and fantasy books, once I loved, lost their magic. Nowadays there are only two types of books that excite me: 1) those about software/hardware engineering, such as iWoz(I even bought a few Tom Swift JR books for my son…

Without even knowing you, I think I know exactly what is your problem. You're not reading with an open mind. Most people only read books where they agree with the author and agree with the books content. Get some books that you'd probably find disagreeable, and read them with the benefit of the doubt. Assume the author is right, and if you really can't do that, just remember that the writer is probably dead since lon…

> Have you read the Bible? It's shockingly different from what people believe is written there. It is a post-apocalyptic survival guide, as well as a collection of human stories and ideas that might date back hundreds of thousands of years.

You must mean hundreds or thousands, right? Modern homo-sapiens are not hundreds of thousands of years old.

> Have you read the Quran? Reading it is essential to understanding Muslims and their faith. It is first and foremost an anti-christian book, and the faith is foremost anti-christian. Just as christendom at one time was foremost anti-pagan.

I've only read parts of the Quran in translation, and I wouldn't say that I understand it that well. It's not organized in a narrative structure like the bible, and there are a lot of parts that are impossible to understand without outside knowledge, like a surah that condemns Abu Lahab but doesn't explain who he was [1]. The Quran is not really the sort of book that you can just read on its own without guidance and expect to understand.

So, with the preface that you should take what I have to say about the Quran with a grain of salt, I'm not sure how you could take away that it's primarily an anti-Christian text. Yes, it criticizes Christians and Jews a lot, but it also has good things to say about them. For example:

"Indeed, the believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabians—whoever truly believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good will have their reward with their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve." [2]

The main villains of the Quran are polytheists (like Abu Lahab). It talks about them a lot more and never has anything good to say [3]. By contrast, the New Testament barely even mentions polytheists or pagans – most of its criticism is directed against Jews.

Muslims traditionally believe that Jesus was the messiah, that he was born of a virgin, that he performed miracles, and that he's going to return and rule the world in a future era [4]. It's also said that Muhammad was identified as a prophet by a Christian monk named Bahira [5]. Early on, Orthodox Christians identified Islam as a heretical form of Christianity, not a different religion [6]. These do not seem like traits of a religion that is foremost anti-Christian.

[1] https://quran.com/111

[2] https://quran.com/2/62

[3] https://quran.com/search?query=polytheist

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahira

[6] https://archive.org/details/johnofdamascuson0000saha

Re: The Lost Art of Research as Leisure

#160
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's had quite a few dealings with animals (the family business is a horse farm) my interpretation is that human psychology is basically animal psychology with a "language instinct" bolted on as a peripheral. You might very well misinterpret an animal's experience or motives but it is not just mistaken "anthropomorphism" but could just be the same kind of misunderstanding you might have about another pers…

How do you know the bird just isn't entertaining itself with its own reflection.

I don't, but your story could be accused of being anthropomorphic as much as my own. If it did have to work harder to forage though, it would have less time and energy to entertain itself.

A case where I know my own psychology has to do with it is the red winged blackbird which is a highly territorial bird which is always calling attention to nests that I'd otherwise ignore by buzz-bombing me and that I see high up in the air flapping frantically to nip at the tail feathers and harass huge hawks that are flapping languidly riding thermals. I see these birds sitting on top of "POSTED: NO TRESPASSING" signs all the time because these are convenient perches, although they have no idea that the sign fits their mindset really well. One of my photography goals in the next few weeks is to get some of those pictures though I don't have a particularly long lens so I'll have the problem that they'll probably try to buzz bomb me instead of sitting still to get their picture taken.

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