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Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

reuters.com

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Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#331

Post by nurettin »

rafram wrote: post #179
csomar wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An entire generation of women from conservative backgrounds couldn't attend university in Turkiye until the 2000s because of the hijab ban. This should have been countered by "forcing" education for everyone. For university, you could do special high subsidies that enable the woman to break from their families. It'll be painful for a couple generations but it does work.

I may be misunderstanding what you’re saying, but it sounds like you’re assuming that women only continue wearing hijab because their families force them to. That’s certainly not the case.

It is extremely rare to meet a hijab girl in Turkey whose family never told her to wear one. For a woman, telling her to wear a hijab as she grows up is pretty much enforcement.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#332

Post by butler14 »

benterix wrote: post #309
throwaway3485t8 wrote: post #35

To add insult to injury, it could be the case that Erdogan's degree is fake [1] (I don't know of a single Turkish person NOT voting for him that thinks that his degree is authentic) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recep_Tayyip_Erdo%C4%9Fan_univ...

No surprise, these folks always accuse others of what they themselves. My pet peeve theory is because they're not great thinkers and they just use what they know best.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accusation_in_a_mirror

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#333

Post by jajko »

darkhorn wrote: post #65
echoangle wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well at least in my opinion, it seems extremely undemocratic. University education is a privilege that some people won’t be able to experience (financial constraints, having to care for relatives, …), and I don’t think it’s a unique qualifier for being a good president. I think if people want to elect someone who didn’t go to university, they should be able to.

Democracy doesn't work when ordinary people are not educated. Education in Turkey has been very poor. Many people have finished only 5th or 8th grades. Many didn't go to a high school. Thus people are not critical thinkers. They are voting as if they are supporting a football team. Someone popular with a low education can fool people, just like in Turkey or Venezuella. And now here we see the result. Erdoğan has no d…

Critical thinking ain't something that you get somehow magically taught on university. Life, its hardships and some sort of keen interest in understanding people and society around you may lead one to such wisdom. Undemocratic countries in fact go directly against that, having education system producing obedient uncritical drones. The more time you spend in it, the greater effect it has on you. IQ doesn't matter that much neither here.

This sort of primitive elitism ain't the healthiest approach.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#334

Post by smcl »

jibe wrote: post #224
lazyasciiart wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it seems silly. Which countries have had a foreign puppet elected because they lack this provision?

Hitler?

Hitler was a "foreign puppet"? This is news to me, can you tell us who the puppet master was? Because it seems to me that person should be as widely reviled as the man himself.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#335

Post by daemin »

dylan604 wrote: post #159
eru wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US requires a fairly high minimum age and for someone to be born American. Those requirements seem also a bit silly and stand in the way of voters expressing their wishes. For some fun times, have a look at the requirements to become president in Singapore. Basically, you either have to have been a senior civil servant before or the CEO of a large and profitable company. https://www.eld.gov.sg/candidate_president…

Having someone born in the country they are looking to lead seems silly to you? With that restriction, it has taken quite some time for a foreign adversary to have a puppet elected vs just shipping in some carpet bagger. Having a minimum age also allows for some decent life experience. After all, 35 years old is not that old.

Having a minimum age to get some life experience is fine, and 35 I would consider a good age, however the minimum age in the USA these days seems like 70.

As for being born in the country, I'm sure with the challenge to birthright citizenship that will get changed in short order to both being born in the country and having your parents and ancestors also be citizens.

Maybe it will change to more of a hereditary system where people had records to prove their ancestry was noble.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#336

Post by throwaway2037 »

echelon wrote: post #204
Quarrel wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having someone born in the country they are looking to lead seems silly to you? Whether it is silly or not, I'm not sure, but it certainly doesn't seem very democratic. IMO Arnold Schwarzenegger, to pick a random foreign born politician, should be able to stand for President. People can choose not to vote for him if they've bothered by him being foreign born. FWIW, in Australia, no member of Federal Parliament (so…

> IMO Arnold Schwarzenegger, to pick a random foreign born politician, should be able to stand for President. The reservoir of potential candidates is vast. The risk this mitigates seems important enough to give up on additional potential candidates. It's not like other countries aren't protective. Have you looked at trying to even just immigrate to Japan? Regardless of how you feel, a country should be able to set i…

    > Have you looked at trying to even just immigrate to Japan?
Here I am again to dispel this HN myth about immigration and Japan.

Ignoring that the Japanese economy is currently weaker than the US economy (which affects your chances of getting an offer in both places as a foreigner), in terms of paperwork and bureaucracy, Japan is much easier to get (and keep) a skilled work visa compared to the US. If you are not looking for a skilled work visa, there is a long term tourist visa (6mo+6mo) that is also easy to get, but you need to have about 200K EUR in liquid assets. Again, the US doesn't have anything as low friction.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#338

Post by hoseja »

breadwinner wrote: post #190
DC-3 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even American and yet where I'm from it's common knowledge that literacy tests were used to systematically disenfranchise black people from voting.

Right, and that was apparently constitutional. If so we can bring back the law, but this time to disenfranchise dumb voters.

Uhhhhhh you do know that even the fairest test for "dumbness" would do exactly the same thing as before, right?

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#339

Post by throwaway2037 »

Quarrel wrote: post #199
dylan604 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having someone born in the country they are looking to lead seems silly to you? With that restriction, it has taken quite some time for a foreign adversary to have a puppet elected vs just shipping in some carpet bagger. Having a minimum age also allows for some decent life experience. After all, 35 years old is not that old.

> Having someone born in the country they are looking to lead seems silly to you? Whether it is silly or not, I'm not sure, but it certainly doesn't seem very democratic. IMO Arnold Schwarzenegger, to pick a random foreign born politician, should be able to stand for President. People can choose not to vote for him if they've bothered by him being foreign born. FWIW, in Australia, no member of Federal Parliament (so…

I think Arnie is a great example, especially because he was a governor for two terms for one of the richest and most populous states, California. If he was allowed to run for president, he would be an excellent candidate.

As a modern compromise, I think the US should allow people who moved to the US before a certain again (maybe 10 or 12) or have lived in the US for 20+ years. If you want to go a little further, you could require them to renounce any other foreign citizenships upon successful election.

The Australia law caused a bunch of trouble in the last 10 years because a bunch of MPs accidentally had US citizenship by birth to Oz parents living in US or one parent was a US citizen, but they never lived in US. (US citizenship is a bit viral in that sense!) I don't remember all of the details exactly, but it did make me think more deeply about a nationality policy for MPs. I think it is a reasonable requirement.

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