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Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president
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Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president
#122[flagged]
Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president
#123East and West, No matter what you call this platform or forum, the vast majority of users are from America and Europe. The East is often viewed from an Orientalist perspective in the eyes of the West. However, when it comes to Turkey, it resembles neither the East nor the West. Our electoral system is not like that of the East. There is no fraud or any other kind of manipulation. However, on the road to elections, anything goes. Laws are enacted, changed, or amended as needed. This is the electoral process. But while the elected officials are chosen by the people, the candidates who make it to the election stage undergo intense training and a series of specific events behind the scenes.
Now, if you look at this matter with straightforward logic, you see that Erdoğan unfairly invalidated İmamoğlu’s diploma and that this is against the law. However, I can only explain the reality of the situation as follows: For nearly 20 years, newspapers, the media, news channels, and even certain famous figures have speculated about Erdoğan’s missing diploma. Whether Erdoğan has a university diploma or not remains uncertain. This is something the left in Turkey has always known but often mocked.
I want to emphasize this: The left in Turkey is ineffective because you cannot change the paradigms inherited from the past. Now, the discussion revolves around İmamoğlu’s diploma. But why? Because, quite simply, those who once criticized Erdoğan for allegedly not having a diploma have now been given a president without a diploma in return.
Was this action illegal? Absolutely not. But is justice in the country applied equally to everyone? Of course not. Do not perceive me as right-wing, left-wing, or an Erdoğan supporter. I am analyzing the situation from a historical perspective.
As for the invalidation of the diploma, if there is an absolutely void and legally null action, how can “acquired rights” (müktesep hak) be established? In the case of an “obvious mistake” the decision can always be reversed. Therefore, the diploma is invalid. Even if most Turks here do not accept this, states operate collectively, and only those chosen by the game masters(USA) remain in play. İmamoğlu is neither one of those people nor even on the bench. That is why, even if he won admission to the university, unfortunately, he has no real chance of being elected.
Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
We already have laws on the books to deal with physical violence. As for verbal abuse, welcome to America - aka sticks and stones country (as guaranteed by our constitution). Anyways, why should a particular faith get special privileges?
When people physically block your access to classes you paid for, on a campus you have an equal right to be at, and they're blocking you on the basis of your faith or ethnicity, that's not "sticks and stones". Edit: clarity about the basis
There's laws on the books to deal with blocking access and movement. You mentioned verbal abuse, that's different. If campus safety nor law is not getting enforced, there's avenues for addressing it.
Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
I actually tend to agree with this (once its given i think morally its too late to take it away, except maybe if they cheated). I still think its a totally different situation than the turkey one though.
They are both situations in which a University was politically pressured by the government to revoke degrees for political purposes. The difference is just the specific goals of the government doing the pressuring. You don’t think Columbia just coincidentally decided to take this action months after the fact, after having its funding pulled by the US administration, do you?
I don't agree with politically pressuring organizations but it could just as easily be politically motivated to not enforce established rules on criminal behaviour.
Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
How would they revoke someone's degree in either country? Do they break into someone's house and steal the piece of paper? A degree is awarded by the institution but I don't see how they could then claim that they did not meet the requirements for the degree retroactively absent some proof of academic misconduct. What possible difference would such a renovation make to anyone outside the university?
The value of a degree is in that the institution confirms, at any request, that said person has that degree. It's not the paper.
Definitely not the education that occurred there it seems
Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president
#127[dead]
Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
When people physically block your access to classes you paid for, on a campus you have an equal right to be at, and they're blocking you on the basis of your faith or ethnicity, that's not "sticks and stones". Edit: clarity about the basis
There's laws on the books to deal with blocking access and movement. You mentioned verbal abuse, that's different. If campus safety nor law is not getting enforced, there's avenues for addressing it.
There are laws on the books for hate speech as well. This was hate speech dressed up as "protest"
Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
From the article it sounds like they were revoked due to causing property damage to the university. Even if you disagree with that move, it seems like a rather different situation.
I think in such situations it can be withheld but not withdrawn, it's pretty common for universities to hold back credentials until debts are paid. But once it's been given I think the only scenario which it can be withdrawn is if it was given under fraudulent circumstances. Like a newspaper retraction, it can only be retracted if the original statement was found to be false. The perpetrator should be sued for damage…
> Withdrawing properly received credentials opens the door to yet another extra-judicial punishment and we already have too many of those.
I don’t understand why this is even an option? So the degree is never truly owned by the recipient then if it can be withdrawn/ revoked? Just another reason not to invest time and money into it.
Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
From the article it sounds like they were revoked due to causing property damage to the university. Even if you disagree with that move, it seems like a rather different situation.
I think in such situations it can be withheld but not withdrawn, it's pretty common for universities to hold back credentials until debts are paid. But once it's been given I think the only scenario which it can be withdrawn is if it was given under fraudulent circumstances. Like a newspaper retraction, it can only be retracted if the original statement was found to be false. The perpetrator should be sued for damage…
> in such situations it can be withheld but not withdrawn, it's pretty common for universities to hold back credentials until debts are paid
The article says Columbia “temporarily revoked the diplomas of some students.” I imagine this is what’s going on.