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In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

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Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#61

Post by Pinckney »

kaptain wrote: post #53

A typical response I see on HN (and on other forums) in response to failings in other countries (e.g. acts of terrorism, corruption, failure of government support, etc) is to find some sarcastic analogy to compare it to in the US. The Chinese government has gotten on the bandwagon with its own publication of the US's human rights violations ( http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-05/25/c_1316113... ). I found…

The Chinese government has gotten on the bandwagon with its own publication of the US's human rights violations (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-05/25/c_1316113...). I found this humorous.

I'm reminded of the Soviet counterpart to this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes)

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#62

Post by rprasad »

Spooky23 wrote: post #54
rprasad wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is because prison is not the punishment for most of those offenses. Before you say shit about the U.S. judicial system, you should learn something about it. SEC and FTC violations are civil offenses . The punishment for civil offenses are fines . Plenty of firms and higher-ups have paid fines. Jail time only applies in cases where deliberate fraud is proven to have occurred. We all know that the finance guys wer…

In the United States, a US Attorney with the political will and backing could convict virtually any citizen. One broad statute is honest services fraud. Basically, if you have a fiduciary duty to someone and commit an act that could reasonably be expected cause economic harm, you've committed a felony. There are many other laws that could be used to lock up many bankers, assuming the will existed to do so.

The honest services fraud statute was struck down earlier this year...

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#63

Post by rprasad »

cperciva wrote: post #23
rprasad wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is because prison is not the punishment for most of those offenses. Before you say shit about the U.S. judicial system, you should learn something about it. SEC and FTC violations are civil offenses . The punishment for civil offenses are fines . Plenty of firms and higher-ups have paid fines. Jail time only applies in cases where deliberate fraud is proven to have occurred. We all know that the finance guys wer…

the only crime in the U.S. system for which "recklessness" is relevant is manslaughter/murder. Hmm, isn't there a specific offense of "reckless endangerment of a child"?

At the state level, yes. *But not at the federal (U.S.) level. These distinctions matter.

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#65

Post by bluedanieru »

kwanbis wrote: post #56
kaptain wrote: post #53

A typical response I see on HN (and on other forums) in response to failings in other countries (e.g. acts of terrorism, corruption, failure of government support, etc) is to find some sarcastic analogy to compare it to in the US. The Chinese government has gotten on the bandwagon with its own publication of the US's human rights violations ( http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-05/25/c_1316113... ). I found…

Kinda off topic, but if you are from USA, you are a United States citizen, american is anybody who is born on the continental america (north, central and south).

Go anywhere and the planet and tell people you're 'American' and not one of them will think you meant Brazil, or Canada, or anything other than the United States.

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#66

Post by chaostheory »

kwanbis wrote: post #56
kaptain wrote: post #53

A typical response I see on HN (and on other forums) in response to failings in other countries (e.g. acts of terrorism, corruption, failure of government support, etc) is to find some sarcastic analogy to compare it to in the US. The Chinese government has gotten on the bandwagon with its own publication of the US's human rights violations ( http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-05/25/c_1316113... ). I found…

Kinda off topic, but if you are from USA, you are a United States citizen, american is anybody who is born on the continental america (north, central and south).

This only applies for countries in South America and maybe, maybe Spain but I really doubt it.

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#67

Post by gwern »

toddh wrote: post #24

Recall that wealthy conscripts could buy their way out of serving in the Revolutionary War and the Civil War.

Yeah, but there it was justified as a way to raise funds for ruinously expensive wars at a time where most alternative methods of fundraising like issuing debt or debasing currency (Continentals, greenbacks) had already been tapped to the hilt. And buying your way out was expensive - IIRC, the Civil War fee was like $300, and I don't even know what that'd be equivalent to today ($30,000?).

These body doubles have no such justifications.

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#68

Post by cperciva »

rprasad wrote: post #63
cperciva wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the only crime in the U.S. system for which "recklessness" is relevant is manslaughter/murder. Hmm, isn't there a specific offense of "reckless endangerment of a child"?

At the state level, yes. *But not at the federal (U.S.) level. These distinctions matter.

Ok. I'm Canadian, so all US law blurs together to me (especially since in Canada, criminal law is under the sole jurisdiction of the federal government).

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#69

Post by ubernostrum »

LargeWu wrote: post #57
kwanbis wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda off topic, but if you are from USA, you are a United States citizen, american is anybody who is born on the continental america (north, central and south).

I have never heard anybody, anywhere, ever, refer to somebody from the North or South American continents, who is not a US citizen as an "American". "The Americas" commonly refers to both continents, but I've never heard anybody call a non US-citizen "American". Where is this a common usage?

This mostly tends to come from people who have nationalistic quibbles, and who want to propose alternate "I will force a name onto you that expresses my attitude toward your country" schemes.

Also, it's an unsolvable problem, because there is no part of "United States of America" that is technically unique. It's not the only nation on the American continents, and it's not the only nation whose official name includes "United States" (Mexico does as well).

Re: In China, the rich and powerful can hire body doubles to do their prison time

#70

Post by hncommenter13 »

cperciva wrote: post #68
rprasad wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the state level, yes. *But not at the federal (U.S.) level. These distinctions matter.

Ok. I'm Canadian, so all US law blurs together to me (especially since in Canada, criminal law is under the sole jurisdiction of the federal government).

In the US it's a mix.

Quoting from a recent post[1] on a law professor blog regarding the relationship between the states and the federal government on criminal matters:

"...[T]he states and the federal government are not exactly co-equals in the criminal law sphere. The states have general police powers while the federal government has limited powers; the states inherited the common law while the federal government must enact statutory offenses."

[1] http://www.volokh.com/2012/08/03/can-federal-border-patrol-a...

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