Earlier quoted context omitted.
> VoA does not broadcast propaganda, they hold themselves to a very high standard of reporting only the truth. Seriously?
Do you have any specific counter examples? FWIW I am not American.
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‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks
121–130 of 140 posts
Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are several different replies here and they are all very different. Some replies even say it is bad, but that it’s a kind of necessary evil. So no I don’t think I’m asking a leading question and no it’s not obvious. That’s a reply that’s used when you don’t want to test your answer. And why would we be so naive to think that Google would discern the intent of American political propaganda for us?
(copying another reply) It might be an unpopular viewpoint....but neocolonialism is necessary. Perhaps not the right choice of word but I mean the term 'neocolonialism' here in the sense of introducing peoples to our ways of life: democracy, capitalism, human rights. The long and short of it is that, you can only get with the web of conflicting interests, pure monetary dealings, etc so far. You don't make any lasting…
This is 2001-2004 all over again. I just don’t believe in the Us policing the world and establishing democracy any more.
I get no satisfaction knowing an African is listening to American radio or Chinese radio.
If we want to win some kind of ideological battle let’s start by actually having a better place to live that others want to emulate.
We have no moral authority to influence others and preach a better way of living if we can’t solve our own problems at home.
Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks
#123As music played where once there was news, how many former soviets were listening and thought, "ah, I remember this."
Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Coming from „the rest of the world“, I don't see a major difference between any US administrations in the past 15 years or so. Then you really aren't paying attention. The next 4 years will prove to you how bad things can get with right-wing fascists in control of the largest military in the world, hell-bent on making "America First". This is far, far away from the left-wing Democrats agenda. You're going to feel th…
Just look up what Obama administration did with raising Putin regime. Also the legendary withdrawal of defense installations from Poland. Mister fucking Nobel peace prize winner. Yes, I don’t care that much about US internal politics. But looks like you have a blind spot for foreign politics. I’m pretty sure a lot of BS I don’t like about US is specifically coming from the left wing. But if you don’t want to hear out…
>Just look up what Obama administration did with raising Putin regime.
Have have no doubt your sources are going to be vastly different than mine.
>Also the legendary withdrawal of defense installations from Poland.
The issue was more complex than you seem to think it is, that much is clear.
> Mister fucking Nobel peace prize winner.
You act like Obama asked for the Nobel Prize - he did not. He had nothing to do with who decided or why they decided to give out the award.
I never said Obama was perfect, but he's far better than the current cruel right-wing fascist asshole.
>I’m pretty sure a lot of BS I don’t like about US is specifically coming from the left wing.
Then you're on the side of the right-wing fascists, it's just that simple.
>But if you don’t want to hear outside perspective, feel free to live in your bubble.
I get to hear plenty of other perspectives, most of them are just "both sides are the same" bogus uninformed and pointless arguments.
Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks
#125The USA appears to be destroying much of the 'soft power' that it spent decades building. And it cost a tiny amount compared to the 'hard power' of the military. As an outsider, it seems very short sighted. The BBC is also cutting jobs in the BBC World Service, which seems similarly short sighted. But I don't think the cuts are as far reaching as the US ones: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpql1vvdn58o
VOA is the old world propaganda network. Twitter/Facebook are the new ones. Direct mirror image of TikTok effects.
> VOA is the old world propaganda network.
True. But, most of the places VOA projects into are in the "old world". How many people in North Korea do you think login to Facebook? For that matter, how many people in the new world still login to twitter?
And while I'm firmly in the new world, I still listen to the radio most days. I suspect the "afternoon drive slot" will belong to radio for a long while yet.
Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem is that neocolonialism, just like colonialism, works best if master culture is tame and at least somewhat compatible with slave cultures. Current US/west culture is quite contraversial to say the least in many parts of the world. At the same time, this culture does not seem to tolerate allies who don't sign off on the full package. This „take it or fuck off“ attitude is not helpful IMO. I'm not surprised…
My opinion regarding this is very simple. I like honesty. If a person or culture does not believe in human rights, then it has to right to complain if we decide to kill, oppress and torture them and raze them to create civilization there. Because what argument do they have for not being tortured if they don't believe in human rights? And Afghanistan is prime pickings right now because they have little allies currentl…
> Because what argument do they have against being tortured if they don't believe in human rights?
Obviously, it's against the most basic principles that the humanist worldview of human rights is based on. I mean, you clearly don't believe in them sincerely, maybe you lie to yourself but you don't. You are the type of self-righteous goon that would happily disappear people in the Stasi or Pinochet's DINA.
> Afghanistan is prime pickings.
That's delusional. You cannot forcibly "reform" a culture in the short term (i.e., decades) that is not simply just near-total genocide. The Taliban cannot be weakened by overwhelming force. When invaders with absurd justifications (first Soviet, later American) commit "collateral damage," they create a sprawling network of causality that strengthens them. Kill the mother, justify the Taliban in the eyes of the son, and so on until the 7th generation.
The US never understood Afghanistan; they didn't want to either. You cannot outplan something that you don't inherently wish to understand, and Bin Laden knew that. Unlike the US, he comprehended both Afghanistan and America. It would have been so simple to send some spooks to snatch him after a couple of months, but that was never going to happen. Osama Bin Laden baited the United States of America, and it fell for it line, hook, and sinker. You lost trillions, thousands of lives, and more importantly, the last sliver of soul your country had.
The terrorists won on October 7, 2001.
Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks
#127The USA appears to be destroying much of the 'soft power' that it spent decades building. And it cost a tiny amount compared to the 'hard power' of the military. As an outsider, it seems very short sighted. The BBC is also cutting jobs in the BBC World Service, which seems similarly short sighted. But I don't think the cuts are as far reaching as the US ones: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpql1vvdn58o
What I find the most interesting is that to me at least it seems like there has been some strange inversion over the course of my adult life, where the same people that used to lament things like the COA VOA propaganda, warfare, instigating and stoking and orchestrating coups, subverting democratic elections, etc. are exactly the ones doing and supporting all those things they used to decry. I get the sense that I’ve…
As someone from a country that's been the target of things like the VoA and much much worse. Ukraine isn't Iraq, this wasn't some dubious justification to preemptively attack. The gringo spooks were sure it wasn't gonna happen and were caught off guard, they didn't even give them advanced weaponry for a good while because they expected them to actually in fall in 3 days. Supporting Ukraine and being against interventionism isn't hypocritical. One only would see it like this if you flatten all context, opposing the Iraq wasn't flower-on-rifle pacisfism. The reasons for invasion were absurd, even if they weren't false.
But to your greater point, there's two things happening here. First, the American liberal was never inherently anti-war, just not as enthusiastic for it when presented with flimsy justification (see post-WW2 history). To the amorphous gas of person who deeply identifies with the Democrat establishment, (i.e dreamed to be Hillary Clinton intern) the "tasteful" use of the intelligence apparatus is Good and Justified, simply stuff you Gotta Do, you know? Advancing freedom and all. The average D voter doesn't actually give a shit about foreign policy, they just are obligated to care when inevitably the weight of reality demonstrates that something impossibly stupid is happening.
Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan*. Anyone with two neurons will reactively want to stop it. Avoiding it is another matter, you have stop producing more Kissingers and change the environment and the people that give them power. A competent and independent leftist movement could do this, but any semblance of this was suppressed 'cuz dirty commies. So yeah, some liberals will genuinely shed a tear for the VoA for "freedom".
Second, even if you hate the spooks and state propaganda like me, they are still useful. Not at good things, but it's nonetheless baffling to see someone put themselves at a disadvantage for no reason. The critiques are about strategy, not the morality of the outcome. Don't be fooled, this isn't an anti-intervention move or limiting spending by conservatives (how are those tax cuts going?). It's a rejection of the subtle and move to mafia style negotiation. Panama is not a joke, it's a promise.
The leftists stayed small. The liberals are still apathetic. The conservatives metaphorically got rabies.
[] One of the only times I've been impressed by Trump, he managed stuff the hot potato of the withdrawal in the mouth Biden, winning the good press while avoiding the blowback.
Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
(copying another reply) It might be an unpopular viewpoint....but neocolonialism is necessary. Perhaps not the right choice of word but I mean the term 'neocolonialism' here in the sense of introducing peoples to our ways of life: democracy, capitalism, human rights. The long and short of it is that, you can only get with the web of conflicting interests, pure monetary dealings, etc so far. You don't make any lasting…
This is 2001-2004 all over again. I just don’t believe in the Us policing the world and establishing democracy any more. I get no satisfaction knowing an African is listening to American radio or Chinese radio. If we want to win some kind of ideological battle let’s start by actually having a better place to live that others want to emulate. We have no moral authority to influence others and preach a better way of li…
Some cultures are constitutionally unable to be good. I have no hope Afghans or Iranians will ever become civilized of their own accord. I strongly believe a strong program of colonialism (unlike the ultra soft approach used in Afghanistan previously) is needed for these peoples.
Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
My opinion regarding this is very simple. I like honesty. If a person or culture does not believe in human rights, then it has to right to complain if we decide to kill, oppress and torture them and raze them to create civilization there. Because what argument do they have for not being tortured if they don't believe in human rights? And Afghanistan is prime pickings right now because they have little allies currentl…
> Because what argument do they have against being tortured if they don't believe in human rights? Obviously, it's against the most basic principles that the humanist worldview of human rights is based on. I mean, you clearly don't believe in them sincerely, maybe you lie to yourself but you don't. You are the type of self-righteous goon that would happily disappear people in the Stasi or Pinochet's DINA. > Afghanist…
I truly believe in human rights. Therefore I believe that someone who believes in human rights should be treated like one. And someone who doesn't believe in human rights, should be treated likewise. Again tell me, if X is someone that does not believe human rights exist what argument do they have to tell you to stop torturing them? If they say their humanity, you can clearly answer they don't believe in it.
And regarding "genocide" argument. To take a really extreme example. Look at how many nazis we killed in WW2 to civilize them. If needed I feel even a 95% figure is probably worth it if we can make men out of Afghanistan.
Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
My opinion regarding this is very simple. I like honesty. If a person or culture does not believe in human rights, then it has to right to complain if we decide to kill, oppress and torture them and raze them to create civilization there. Because what argument do they have for not being tortured if they don't believe in human rights? And Afghanistan is prime pickings right now because they have little allies currentl…
> Because what argument do they have against being tortured if they don't believe in human rights? Obviously, it's against the most basic principles that the humanist worldview of human rights is based on. I mean, you clearly don't believe in them sincerely, maybe you lie to yourself but you don't. You are the type of self-righteous goon that would happily disappear people in the Stasi or Pinochet's DINA. > Afghanist…
As I have said previously, we need a two pronged approach. Keep killing off the hardliners, while flying those with seeds of civilization to western countries for training and acculturation and fly them back in when their relative count compared to the extremists is high enough they can completely and permanently change the culture of the place.