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‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

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Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#101

Post by tzs »

krapp wrote: post #89
freeone3000 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biden had the same attitudes towards enemies like Palestine and unaligned powers in the Middle East and Africa, where the main issue is inaction. Trump is starting trade wars with close economic allies, threatening to annex territory from other NATO members, and closing down century-old institutions overnight. There is a difference between seeing Israel killing Palestinians and doing nothing, and actually threatening…

Biden didn't do nothing. He stated firm support for Israel, to the point of declaring himself a Zionist, he sent billions of dollars in arms and aid to Israel, and the US under his leadership vetoed numerous UN resolutions calling for a ceasefire, as well as witheld funding to Palestinian relief organizations. He got the nickname "Genocide Joe" because of how enthusiastic he almost seemed to be about it. Utter disreg…

Biden also put sanctions on extremist Israeli settlers who were committing violence against Palestinians in the West Bank and restored hundreds of millions of aid for Palestinians that had been cut by the first Trump Administration.

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#102

Post by disqard »

tigerlily wrote: post #44
snovv_crash wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence.

When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

Yup, it looks like a Russian stooge has been installed in the White House.

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#103

Post by slater »

jmye wrote: post #98
slater wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a better phrasing would be "impose their idea of a world order, with their ideas of democracy, capitalism, and the rule of their laws"

There is a vast difference between the word I responded to, “build”, and the word you substituted in, “impose”. Hard power and violence “imposes”. Sending you TB vaccines and helping you build roads, well, “builds”.

I'm not disagreeing, nor did i claim they're the same word. but your idea of “building” always seems to come with demands, implied or otherwise.

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#104

Post by leptons »

kcplate wrote: post #29
leptons wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America provides copious amounts of aid all over the world. That's soft power. It's not "propaganda", it actually helps people survive.

It’s only power if the recipients view the US positively, or if other countries view the US positively for that aid. Unfortunately I think it backfires when US power of all sorts (both hard and soft) is viewed as meddling. At that point is the altruism worth the negative optics? I wonder.

There is aid, and there is meddling. The two aren't always intertwined. It's best when they aren't.

If "The US" drops a bomb on civilians, by accident or not, does that make all Americans bad, when it was really just a few military people that ultimately pulled that trigger?

With regards to optics, if the picture is blurry, then maybe put on your glasses. "The US" isn't only one thing or one entity.

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#105

Post by leptons »

mantas wrote: post #50
leptons wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America provides copious amounts of aid all over the world. That's soft power. It's not "propaganda", it actually helps people survive.

A lot of those money went to pushing US cultural wars themes worldwide. And many parts of the world don’t exactly share modern US (or democrats party voters) values. Then US soft power is closer to waging cultural war. Not exactly USAID, but similar topic. In my country US ambassador openly pushed for law that more than half of population is against for cultural reasons. That feels more like attempt of soft coloniali…

>And many parts of the world don’t exactly share modern US (or democrats party voters) values.

Oh, I'm sure "the rest of the world" is cheering on the US to invade Panama, Greenland, Mexico, and Canada, which are all things that are actually on the table with the fascist right-wing agenda that currently control all branches of US government. "The rest of the world" is right now wishing Harris had won the election, not to mention half the US.

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#106

Post by mantas »

cassepipe wrote: post #54
mantas wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of those money went to pushing US cultural wars themes worldwide. And many parts of the world don’t exactly share modern US (or democrats party voters) values. Then US soft power is closer to waging cultural war. Not exactly USAID, but similar topic. In my country US ambassador openly pushed for law that more than half of population is against for cultural reasons. That feels more like attempt of soft coloniali…

Well the difference between pushing for something and forcing is exactly the difference between soft power/influence and colonialism. Sure people may have different values but people can change and even in your country some people may find refreshing or even life saving to know that different perspectives exist. As you said maybe half of the population is against it... Maybe the other half is ok with it ?

Soft power is usually influence when followers fall in line without a push. And at least in these parts of the world it worked pretty well till mid-00s or somewhere around the '08 crisis?

When ambassador is trying to openly meddle with democratic processes in hosting country... It's a wee more than soft power and influence. Especially when both pro- and against- sides read it as „pass those laws contraversial even in US itself or else we won't defend you from muscovites“.

Regarding different perspectives existing, anybody consuming at least a tiny bit of media (western or not), knows that different perspectives exist. No need for ambassador to say anything. Showing off your lifestyle in media in a positive light is the best way to promote it, not push it down the people throat. It worked well for decades and the trend is clear. But for some reason in the past decade or so some people decided to ditch worked well.

In that specific case, ~ 1/4 supported the law, over 1/2 were against, remaining didn't care. Ultimately the law did not pass in parliament. The smaller party that pushed the law the most is no longer in parliament. A major party that co-pushed the law lost later election, with some members of the party attributing that to overall cultural wars narrative, the party leader resigned and the new leader of that party is much more conservative.

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#107

Post by mantas »

ouilala wrote: post #93
mantas wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of those money went to pushing US cultural wars themes worldwide. And many parts of the world don’t exactly share modern US (or democrats party voters) values. Then US soft power is closer to waging cultural war. Not exactly USAID, but similar topic. In my country US ambassador openly pushed for law that more than half of population is against for cultural reasons. That feels more like attempt of soft coloniali…

And yes, it might be an unpopular viewpoint....but neocolonialism is necessary. Perhaps not the right choice of word but I mean the term 'neocolonialism' here in the sense of introducing peoples to our ways of life: democracy, capitalism, human rights. The long and short of it is that, you can only get with the web of conflicting interests, pure monetary dealings, etc so far. You don't make any lasting alliance with…

The problem is that neocolonialism, just like colonialism, works best if master culture is tame and at least somewhat compatible with slave cultures. Current US/west culture is quite contraversial to say the least in many parts of the world. At the same time, this culture does not seem to tolerate allies who don't sign off on the full package. This „take it or fuck off“ attitude is not helpful IMO.

I'm not surprised that China is doing so well in „global south“. US/west needs not only to return to colonialism game, but update their offer as well.

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#108

Post by mantas »

ouilala wrote: post #72
mantas wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of those money went to pushing US cultural wars themes worldwide. And many parts of the world don’t exactly share modern US (or democrats party voters) values. Then US soft power is closer to waging cultural war. Not exactly USAID, but similar topic. In my country US ambassador openly pushed for law that more than half of population is against for cultural reasons. That feels more like attempt of soft coloniali…

Afghanistan (as an example) should have been civilized, whatever effort necessary for it. If a peoples or country doesn't support human rights, capitalism, etc then what justification does it have to tell you to stop if you oppress and torture them? Human rights? Pish they don't believe that crap.

Afghanistan is called grave of the empires for a reason :)

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#109

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

seydor wrote: post #47

It's difficult to understand the american strategy here , and even whether there is one. A state must have a strategy, it cannot be ran like a corporate, or else someone else with a strategy will become more successful. Imagine if the roman empire went "on holiday" sometime around 100AD and just declared "Rome first!" but withdrew from the known world and let the chips fall where they may. "America first" is not some…

> Imagine if the roman empire went "on holiday" sometime around 100AD and just declared "Rome first!" but withdrew from the known world and let the chips fall where they may.

Actually, the ongoing collapse of the American governmental systems makes the collapse of various ancient civilizations seem less puzzling to me.

The US is at a point where the president is deliberately destroying his own government bureaucracy, ignoring the courts, and probably bringing about the end of constitutional rule. Meanwhile, Congress is just sitting back and watching it happen. Trump's wealthy backers support all this because they don't want to pay taxes or follow regulations, and Trump's voters are deeply angry and willing to lash out at whoever Trump tells them is to blame. You can't pay your mortgage because: "the EPA exists," "all our money is being given to foreign aid," "immigrants stole your job," etc.

It almost makes me think that maybe the Late Bronze Age Collapse occurred for internal social and political reasons that are impossible to piece together 3000 years later. 3000 years from now, will anyone be able to explain why the US political system imploded in the 2020s?

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#110

Post by mantas »

leptons wrote: post #105
mantas wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of those money went to pushing US cultural wars themes worldwide. And many parts of the world don’t exactly share modern US (or democrats party voters) values. Then US soft power is closer to waging cultural war. Not exactly USAID, but similar topic. In my country US ambassador openly pushed for law that more than half of population is against for cultural reasons. That feels more like attempt of soft coloniali…

>And many parts of the world don’t exactly share modern US (or democrats party voters) values. Oh, I'm sure "the rest of the world" is cheering on the US to invade Panama, Greenland, Mexico, and Canada , which are all things that are actually on the table with the fascist right-wing agenda that currently control all branches of US government. "The rest of the world" is right now wishing Harris had won the election, n…

Coming from „the rest of the world“, I don't see a major difference between any US administrations in the past 15 years or so. It's the same nasty attitude pushing sleazy interests. I don't see a big difference between Obama being friendly to Putin after Georgia war and glancing over Crimea occupation and Trump doing what he is doing now. If US would have been a good cop back then, we wouldn't have a shit ton of issues today.

As for US internal matters... I don't give a damn. You guys do you. But some long-running stuff in US looks horrible. E.g. if my country had elections-without-mandatory-voter-ID, I would not trust those elections at all. Your supreme court and surrounding drama looks like a shitshow for decades. And allowing big business money in politics smells like legalized corruption. All in all, your issues does not seem to be related to Trump or Haris or any other specific person.

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