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The Alexa feature "do not send voice recordings" you enabled no longer available

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Re: The Alexa feature "do not send voice recordings" you enabled no longer available

#511

Post by immibis »

chabes wrote: post #326
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> under capitalism wealth and income follow a Pareto distribution. And under the other forms of government thus far tried? Anyway, Capitalism doesn't explain wealth inequality. The ability to accumulate capital and apply it to industry with limited liability doesn't inherently cause wealth inequality. That's the fault of Greedism, Over-inflated-sense-of-selfism, and Giving Money to Politicians is like giving Whiskey…

Capitalism isn’t a form of government. It’s an economic system. Politicized, sure.

Politics and economics are the same word.

Re: The Alexa feature "do not send voice recordings" you enabled no longer available

#512

Post by ranger_danger »

reverendsteveii wrote: post #488
mmaunder wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have Alexa and a few Siri devices next to me and I just said a bunch of phrases indicating fire, choking, that we should call 911 etc and nothing triggered. So yeah - this is just internet bullshit until proven otherwise.

it both is and isn't secret bullshit. there's no evidence that there's a list of secret keywords Lord Bezos is listening for, but there's plenty of evidence that these devices active unintentionally all the time and that those unintentional activations lead to you being recorded and that recording being sent off into the cloud https://moniotrlab.khoury.northeastern.edu/publications/smar...

I don't think it's any secret that the device can unintentionally activate in certain circumstances (and whether or not that's due to it thinking it heard its name is another debate)... but my problem with OP's statement is that they seem to frame it as if it's intentionally and maliciously listening more often than it should, and I just don't see any evidence to support that claim.

Re: The Alexa feature "do not send voice recordings" you enabled no longer available

#513

Post by seltzered_ »

Related, here's a comment from 2019 from at the time of writing from someone claiming to be a principal engineer at Amazon, talking about how

"I'm proud of the approach that Amazon takes to privacy. Privacy of customer data is considered the most important thing to Amazon, and this customer obsession (the #1 leadership principle) permeates the organization."

The comment further talks about the mute button on the original Amazon Echo (i.e. Alexa voice assistant) being hardware-based : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19208670

Re: The Alexa feature "do not send voice recordings" you enabled no longer available

#514

Post by frereubu »

TriangleEdge wrote: post #393
bentt wrote: post #351

I know this single bit of news isn't the biggest deal. However we were talking at the dinner table, my wife and two kids and I. We just decided we're done with Amazon and Alexa. My wife has always been skeeved out by the devices, and I've reassured her that the wake word is the only time it's recording. Whether this is true or not, it's obvious that the company can no longer be trusted. So yeah we're just going to ge…

Alexa listens to more then the wake word. I've had this recommend products on Amazon while my wife and I were having a conversation at the dinner table. It also recommended calling 911 while I was talking about fire. It's a spying device people willingly put in their homes for the convenience of a timer you can active with your voice. Edit: It could be that it activated mishearing "Alexa". I don't have hard evidence…

I'm not sure whether it's listening to more than the wake word, but I've seen Siri wake up quite often when I very definitely haven't said anything approaching "Siri", and see it occasionally on other people's devices too. I remember listening to a BBC podcast in the car once and there was once piece of audio from it that would reliably activate Siri. I was a bit nonplussed by it and rewound it four or five times to check, which it did every time. I think accidental activation is a much more likely explanation, which is still dreadful from a privacy perspective.

Re: The Alexa feature "do not send voice recordings" you enabled no longer available

#515

Post by photonthug »

Aurornis wrote: post #501
photonthug wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be a bombshell revelation and you’d see it everywhere. What a strange idea. From what I remember about the "privacy nightmare on wheels" disclosure [1], Americans have apparently already consented to being recorded at all times by simply being within range of cameras and microphones in cars they don't own, passengers consent to losing control of their DNA by sitting in the car, etc. It's better for Europea…

> What a strange idea. From what I remember about the "privacy nightmare on wheels" disclosure [1], Americans have apparently already consented to being recorded at all times by simply being within range of cameras and microphones in cars they don't own, Your memory is incorrect, or at least misguided. There's nothing special about cars, doing things in public places does not come with a reasonable expectation of pri…

> There's nothing special about cars, doing things in public places does not come with a reasonable expectation of privacy.

You're probably talking about pedestrians on the sidewalk (which I also disagree about) but are you going to say the interior of the car is not private? Why would a home be private if a car is not? Spying in the kitchen but not the bedroom? Spying in the bedroom as long as it's audio only? Is my backyard private? Is anything?

> I don't know where you're getting this one. It's definitely not supported by the article you linked.

Dig deeper then. I'd find the reference for you, but when you're confronted with it then you'll just probably just argue it's standard for shrinkwrapped "all rights reserved" kind of legalese and it doesn't matter that we're expected to tolerate this kind of bullshit because we don't have the technology to stick a DNA sequencer under the seat. But that's exactly the point. The abuse is SOP now and for whatever reason, some people will always make excuses for it.

Re: The Alexa feature "do not send voice recordings" you enabled no longer available

#516

Post by jzb »

everdrive wrote: post #186

People don't really care about privacy, it's as simple as that. Yes, they worry about privacy, and complain about violations of privacy. But if they cared, they never would have purchased this product in the first place. There are bits of technology which violate privacy, but are extremely difficult to fully avoid: Social Media, (I know a lot of HN isn't on it, but how about most of your family and friends?) smart ph…

"They just don't care about privacy, and companies know this."

They don't prioritize privacy over other concerns, largely convenience, because (to date) they haven't been burned by that choice or at least haven't been burned badly enough or aren't aware. I think that, in the coming months and years, this is going to change.

My family has started paying attention to this sort of thing and opting out of things that they see as risks to privacy. A few years ago they were like "yeah, you're right, but..." -- not so much anymore.

Re: The Alexa feature "do not send voice recordings" you enabled no longer available

#517

Post by bko »

poincaredisk wrote: post #469
bko wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone really cares about "public transit". I think people care how convenient their life is. Why should I care if I take a bus to work or drive? I prefer whatever is best for me. I would look at cost + time. For instance, if it costs me an extra $2k per year for a car but it saves me 30 minutes round trip, and my time is worth more than $20 an hour (assume work 200 days per year), then car is better. A…

I explicitly care about "public transport". I strongly dislike cars, like trains and bike lanes, mostly commute by bus. I can't imagine living in a place without a good public transport. I strongly prefer cities and places without too many cars everywhere. >Add the convenience of not having to manage bus schedules and, you know, owning a car, its a no-brainer. I assume you live in a place where cars are the default,…

Right, you can like public transport and that's fine. But most people don't care and prefer to have cars. This is especially true if you have a family.

Just two examples:

- food shopping is a lot more expensive if you have to buy local and you're restricted to how much you can carry

- it's kind of rude taking a sick or injured child to the doctor on public transportation

This is obvious if you look at behavior. When people get more money, they buy a car or often multiple cars. When they have a family, people tend to move to suburbs where cars are the primary mode of transportation. Even in cities with good public transportation, like New York, wealthy people still often own cars and use them along with private car service.

People might answer some survey stating they like public transportation but their behavior suggests otherwise. And these surveys are frame against an impossible ideal that does not exist. Look at behavior.

Re: The Alexa feature "do not send voice recordings" you enabled no longer available

#518

Post by Zamaamiro »

bgirard wrote: post #437
ethbr1 wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should not the burden of proof be on Amazon to prove it's not always recording? In 2025, it feels like we're 5 to 10 years past the time a consumer should default to assuming their cloud-connected device isn't extracting the maximum possible revenue from them. Assume all companies are amoral, and you'll never be disappointed.

> Should not the burden of proof be on Amazon to prove it's not always recording? What's a satisfactory burden of proof for Amazon to meet here? There's only so much you can do to prove that something is NOT happening.

It's not at all unreasonable for consumers to demand vendors--especially those with as much market power as Amazon--to take steps to foster trust that, though they may not rise to the level of "proving a negative," still go some ways towards assuring us they are not violating our privacy.

The fact that they don't take any of those steps (and the fact that we are in a thread about they're disabling this privacy feature in the first place!) goes to show that consumers have every right to be skeptical and indeed to refuse to bring these products into our lives.

I think it's inane to complain that consumers are placing an impossibly high standard on Amazon when Amazon themselves choose not to meet even the lowest of standards.

Re: The Alexa feature "do not send voice recordings" you enabled no longer available

#519

Post by ddmma »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #59
ddmma wrote: post #56

My first tought was in this direction: Amazon’s Echo hardware can be hacked to run your own local voice assistant that never touches the cloud. This involves replacing or modifying the Echo’s firmware to break free of Amazon’s servers, then installing offline voice recognition and AI tools on your local network.

Do you have a link? Last time I looked a couple of years ago, Amazon's hardware was too locked down to be used for anything other than Amazon's services.

... becoming quite interesting topic the more you dig in https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Amazon_Echo_Dot_2nd_gen_(...

Re: The Alexa feature "do not send voice recordings" you enabled no longer available

#520

Post by ffhhj »

seltzered_ wrote: post #513

Related, here's a comment from 2019 from at the time of writing from someone claiming to be a principal engineer at Amazon, talking about how "I'm proud of the approach that Amazon takes to privacy. Privacy of customer data is considered the most important thing to Amazon, and this customer obsession (the #1 leadership principle) permeates the organization." The comment further talks about the mute button on the orig…

We should make AI generated conversations to overload their surveilance.
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