Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

httptoolkit.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 504 posts

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#91

Post by CharlieDigital »

0x457 wrote: post #83
CharlieDigital wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I think it is safe to say C# is indeed a minor language That's not really the case; StackOverflow survey[0] shows C# (27.1%) right behind Java (30.3%) and well ahead of Go (13.5%), Rust (12.6%), Kotlin (9.4%), Ruby (5.2%), and Scala (2.6%). If we exclude HTML/CSS, Bash/Shell, and SQL, C# would be #5 in actual languages used over the past year by devs in this survey. You get the same result from scraping job post…

I never understood SO as a measurement tool for anything, but people that can't read docs.

You have to have some metrics from somewhere to be able to understand which languages are being used.

SO is one data point, but there are certainly others.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#92

Post by pas »

aboardRat4 wrote: post #69

TLS termination is still not working for HTTP/3, I think. The nicest feature of HTTP/3 is that it is UDP based, and thus does not allow so much interception by the malicious ISPs.

can you please elaborate on what do you mean? TLS termination as in HTTP/3 on a reverse proxy?

nginx's implementation works. (but for me it caused a strange performance degradation with Seafile)

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#93

Post by mixmastamyk »

shermantanktop wrote: post #84
hypeatei wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> side note: sad that .NET and C# are not considered "major I've said it before on here, but the tech community severely underrates .NET today. It's not Windows only (and hasn't been for ~8 years) plus C# is a very nice language. F# is also an option for people who like functional languages. I'd highly recommend giving it a try if you haven't already.

.NET suffers from the long lasting reputational taint of Microsoft. It was seen as the sworn enemy of open source and Linux, and for good reason. Today’s MS is not what it was back then. But long memories are not a bad thing, really. If .NET suffers a bit from some unfair perception, perhaps that can remind MS and others what happens when you take an aggressively adversarial approach.

They may be much less Linux-hostile today, but are still plenty user-hostile. Not to mention their lackadaisical security record.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#94

Post by crazygringo »

xxs wrote: post #70
llm_nerd wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefits of QUIC / HTTP/3 have been extremely well defined as- -higher latency connections. -packet loss under multiplexing scenarios / suboptimal connections (e.g. mobile). These are the situations where it shines and runs away from HTTP/2. And this has been the promised advantage from the outset, and is literally the problem it is designed to solve. Given that the linked paper mentions the word latency once in…

>with 5% packet loss This is absolutely massive

Clearly you have never taken the subway, or stood on a particular street corner with bad reception.

Quite frequently I'd love to have just 5% packet loss.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#95

Post by CharlieDigital »

bheadmaster wrote: post #85
CharlieDigital wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I think it is safe to say C# is indeed a minor language That's not really the case; StackOverflow survey[0] shows C# (27.1%) right behind Java (30.3%) and well ahead of Go (13.5%), Rust (12.6%), Kotlin (9.4%), Ruby (5.2%), and Scala (2.6%). If we exclude HTML/CSS, Bash/Shell, and SQL, C# would be #5 in actual languages used over the past year by devs in this survey. You get the same result from scraping job post…

> StackOverflow survey[0] shows C# (27.1%) right behind Java (30.3%) Can we rule out sample bias here? After all, Jon Skeet [0] is an important part of the Stack Overflow's C# community. It might just be the case that C# and Java developers use Stack Overflow more than users of other languages. [0] https://toggl.com/blog/save-princess-8-programming-languages

You get the same result from scraping job postings: https://www.devjobsscanner.com/blog/top-8-most-demanded-prog...

    1. JS/TS (note these two are collapsed)
    2. Python
    3. Java
    4. C#
So now you have two data points that align and are completely independent measuring two different things (one self reported, one based on employer job postings).

I'd say it's consistent and reliable?

It's not like people use StackOverflow because it's written in C#; people use StackOverflow because Google points us there.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#96

Post by arccy »

hypeatei wrote: post #24
CharlieDigital wrote: post #2

> At the same time, neither QUIC nor HTTP/3 are included in the standard libraries of any major languages including Node.js, Go, Rust, Python or Ruby. .NET actually looking like it has decent support for any teams that are interested[0] (side note: sad that .NET and C# are not considered "major"...). There is an open source C library that they've published that seems rather far along[1] Support for Windows, Linux[2],…

> side note: sad that .NET and C# are not considered "major I've said it before on here, but the tech community severely underrates .NET today. It's not Windows only (and hasn't been for ~8 years) plus C# is a very nice language. F# is also an option for people who like functional languages. I'd highly recommend giving it a try if you haven't already.

It wasn't good enough for the typescript rewrite...

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#97

Post by pjc50 »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #61
pjc50 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/deploying/nati... "Since there's no standardized way to obtain native macOS SDK for use on Windows/Linux, or Windows SDK for use on Linux/macOS, or a Linux SDK for use on Windows/macOS, Native AOT does not support cross-OS compilation. Cross-OS compilation with Native AOT requires some form of emulation, like a virtual machine or Windows WSL." Now, you don't…

> Native AOT does not support cross-OS compilation > ...runtime-dependent and self-contained are fine This certainly reads like you moved the goal posts and recognized it.

More that there are at least three different ways to deploy things in dotnet, and only AOT is directly equivalent to Go executables. I like dotnet and use it at work but this is a nuisance limitation for us.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#98

Post by pas »

elcritch wrote: post #19
kccqzy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison with IPv6 is interesting. IPv6 isn't mainly driven by open source or community. It is driven by the needs of large corporations, including both ISPs and tech companies. ISPs like T-mobile wanting to run an IPv6-only backbone network, and tech companies like Apple forcing every app in the App Store to work in IPv6-only mode (DNS64+NAT64). New operating system levels features for IPv6 are often proposed…

IPv6 always seemed to me to be driven by a certain class of purist networking geeks. Then some corporations started getting on board like you said, but many couldn't care less.

wanting p2p to work (without quixotic NAT hole-punching) is puristry?

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#99

Post by InfiniteRand »

Here’s the question, are the benefits worth the increase in complexity, or rather are they worth more than other features that could be worthwhile for libraries to support.

For the hyperscale web sure, but for the long tail web that is very unclear.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#100

Post by nine_k »

elcritch wrote: post #19
kccqzy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison with IPv6 is interesting. IPv6 isn't mainly driven by open source or community. It is driven by the needs of large corporations, including both ISPs and tech companies. ISPs like T-mobile wanting to run an IPv6-only backbone network, and tech companies like Apple forcing every app in the App Store to work in IPv6-only mode (DNS64+NAT64). New operating system levels features for IPv6 are often proposed…

IPv6 always seemed to me to be driven by a certain class of purist networking geeks. Then some corporations started getting on board like you said, but many couldn't care less.

The exhaustion of IPv4 address pool was easy to predict even in 2000, just by extrapolation of the growth curve.

Then came IP telephony backbone and the mobile internet, topped up with the cloud, and the need became acute. For the large corporations involved, at least.

Post reply on HN