‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#111

Post by ouilala » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:01 AM UTC

mantas wrote: post #107

ouilala wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yes, it might be an unpopular viewpoint....but neocolonialism is necessary. Perhaps not the right choice of word but I mean the term 'neocolonialism' here in the sense of introducing peoples to our ways of life: democracy, capitalism, human rights. The long and short of it is that, you can only get with the web of conflicting interests, pure monetary dealings, etc so far. You don't make any lasting alliance with…

The problem is that neocolonialism, just like colonialism, works best if master culture is tame and at least somewhat compatible with slave cultures. Current US/west culture is quite contraversial to say the least in many parts of the world. At the same time, this culture does not seem to tolerate allies who don't sign off on the full package. This „take it or fuck off“ attitude is not helpful IMO. I'm not surprised…

My opinion regarding this is very simple. I like honesty. If a person or culture does not believe in human rights, then it has to right to complain if we decide to kill, oppress and torture them and raze them to create civilization there. Because what argument do they have for not being tortured if they don't believe in human rights?

And Afghanistan is prime pickings right now because they have little allies currently. A motivated and well planned operation can eliminate them right now. I see the Taliban as an issue much longer term than merely using them as temporary pawns. I believe in the complete elimination of Taliban, the Iranian regime and similar groups.

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#112

Post by ouilala » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 10:04 AM UTC

mantas wrote: post #108

ouilala wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afghanistan (as an example) should have been civilized, whatever effort necessary for it. If a peoples or country doesn't support human rights, capitalism, etc then what justification does it have to tell you to stop if you oppress and torture them? Human rights? Pish they don't believe that crap.

Afghanistan is called grave of the empires for a reason :)

The USA wasn't trying to fight a war there. As I note in my argument of non-believers in human rights having no right to oppose their own oppression....I don't really have any issues eliminating 90% or even higher of these elements until sanity emerges. If I were in charge I'd be flying in those with seeds of civilized thought into Western countries for training and acculturation, and destroy the hardliners meanwhile. And when the hardliners are sufficiently decimated, fly back them in as consultants or if they prefer as citizens back in Afg and so on.

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#113

Post by kcplate » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 1:01 PM UTC

leptons wrote: post #104

kcplate wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s only power if the recipients view the US positively, or if other countries view the US positively for that aid. Unfortunately I think it backfires when US power of all sorts (both hard and soft) is viewed as meddling. At that point is the altruism worth the negative optics? I wonder.

There is aid, and there is meddling. The two aren't always intertwined. It's best when they aren't. If "The US" drops a bomb on civilians, by accident or not, does that make all Americans bad, when it was really just a few military people that ultimately pulled that trigger? With regards to optics, if the picture is blurry, then maybe put on your glasses. "The US" isn't only one thing or one entity.

> With regards to optics, if the picture is blurry, then maybe put on your glasses. "The US" isn't only one thing or one entity.

If the optics are not crystal clear your soft power is not power at all. You don’t get to tell the world to “put on your glasses”. So if your altruism is not automatically perceived that way are you actually helping…or are you meddling?

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#114

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 1:09 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #58

addicted wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soft power is simply the capability to persuade others without coercion. So it’s usually a much less destructive tool to achieve the same goal when the alternative is “hard” power. Whether you build the soft power ethically or unethically (and false propaganda could be one of the many unethical ways to build soft power) is upto the country in question. And whether that soft power is deployed for “good” or “bad” purpo…

> Soft power is simply the capability to persuade others without coercion. So it’s usually a much less destructive tool to achieve the same goal when the alternative is “hard” power. Powerful countries don't use soft power to bring good, they use it to serve their interests - when the target country's interests and its people's inclinations are not favorable to them.

[deleted]

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#115

Post by leptons » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 4:19 PM UTC

mantas wrote: post #110

leptons wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And many parts of the world don’t exactly share modern US (or democrats party voters) values. Oh, I'm sure "the rest of the world" is cheering on the US to invade Panama, Greenland, Mexico, and Canada , which are all things that are actually on the table with the fascist right-wing agenda that currently control all branches of US government. "The rest of the world" is right now wishing Harris had won the election, n…

Coming from „the rest of the world“, I don't see a major difference between any US administrations in the past 15 years or so. It's the same nasty attitude pushing sleazy interests. I don't see a big difference between Obama being friendly to Putin after Georgia war and glancing over Crimea occupation and Trump doing what he is doing now. If US would have been a good cop back then, we wouldn't have a shit ton of issu…

>Coming from „the rest of the world“, I don't see a major difference between any US administrations in the past 15 years or so.

Then you really aren't paying attention. The next 4 years will prove to you how bad things can get with right-wing fascists in control of the largest military in the world, hell-bent on making "America First". This is far, far away from the left-wing Democrats agenda. You're going to feel the difference, I have no doubt.

All "both sides are the same" arguments are completely invalid, you simply are not paying attention to US politics if you think that, or you have a crooked agenda to push.

>Obama being friendly to Putin after Georgia war

lol, no, Obama was never "friendly" to Putin. As much as you'd like to shit on all of the US, we're not all bad and your attempt to drag down Obama in the same sentence as trump proves you have no clue about the character of these two people.

>All in all, your issues does not seem to be related to Trump or Haris or any other specific person.

All the corruption and cruelty you imagine in your head as being "The US", are coming from one side - the right-wing fascist side. You don't have to believe me, you can look to other countries where similar fascists inhabit top office, like Russia, Hungary, and many more. There are many examples worldwide, it isn't limited to the US. Problems happen when cruel people are elected. It doesn't matter where. And no, Obama is not cruel, but trump is proving every day how cruel a human can be. Maybe if you pay attention you'll be able to spot the difference.

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#116

Post by mantas » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 7:24 PM UTC

ouilala wrote: post #111

mantas wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that neocolonialism, just like colonialism, works best if master culture is tame and at least somewhat compatible with slave cultures. Current US/west culture is quite contraversial to say the least in many parts of the world. At the same time, this culture does not seem to tolerate allies who don't sign off on the full package. This „take it or fuck off“ attitude is not helpful IMO. I'm not surprised…

My opinion regarding this is very simple. I like honesty. If a person or culture does not believe in human rights, then it has to right to complain if we decide to kill, oppress and torture them and raze them to create civilization there. Because what argument do they have for not being tortured if they don't believe in human rights? And Afghanistan is prime pickings right now because they have little allies currentl…

The current problem with human rights is it was turned into ever-moving target. It’s a pretty shitty situation to be forced to believe in something people on another continent keep coming up with. With old school religions, at least they move slowly and there are literally centuries to adapt. Now what was obscure crazy stuff in some far away corner of the world a decade ago is claimed to be must-have human rights.

Good luck trying to civilize Afghanistan again. Chinese would looooove West trying again. Nothing better than yet another proxy war.

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#117

Post by mantas » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 7:27 PM UTC

ouilala wrote: post #112

mantas wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afghanistan is called grave of the empires for a reason :)

The USA wasn't trying to fight a war there. As I note in my argument of non-believers in human rights having no right to oppose their own oppression....I don't really have any issues eliminating 90% or even higher of these elements until sanity emerges. If I were in charge I'd be flying in those with seeds of civilized thought into Western countries for training and acculturation, and destroy the hardliners meanwhile…

USSR tried that for a decade. Then US. But reality is such conversion would take few generations at least. Good luck convincing tax payers that 50 years occupational forces are worth it.

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#118

Post by mantas » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 7:33 PM UTC

leptons wrote: post #115

mantas wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming from „the rest of the world“, I don't see a major difference between any US administrations in the past 15 years or so. It's the same nasty attitude pushing sleazy interests. I don't see a big difference between Obama being friendly to Putin after Georgia war and glancing over Crimea occupation and Trump doing what he is doing now. If US would have been a good cop back then, we wouldn't have a shit ton of issu…

>Coming from „the rest of the world“, I don't see a major difference between any US administrations in the past 15 years or so. Then you really aren't paying attention. The next 4 years will prove to you how bad things can get with right-wing fascists in control of the largest military in the world, hell-bent on making "America First". This is far, far away from the left-wing Democrats agenda. You're going to feel th…

Just look up what Obama administration did with raising Putin regime. Also the legendary withdrawal of defense installations from Poland. Mister fucking Nobel peace prize winner.

Yes, I don’t care that much about US internal politics. But looks like you have a blind spot for foreign politics.

I’m pretty sure a lot of BS I don’t like about US is specifically coming from the left wing. But if you don’t want to hear outside perspective, feel free to live in your bubble.

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#119

Post by googlehater » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 7:40 PM UTC

brickfaced wrote: post #22

Strikes me as odd how one flavor of commenters who've long called for the "end of the American Empire," reductions in our "overseas military imperialism," and closure of the VoA "propaganda outlet" now stand by the institutions of said Empire to the death.

I find this interesting as well, so I think it's unfortunate you are downvoted. In a similar vein, the ultrapatriotic type that loved the USA being #1, having influence everywhere, also seem to be cheering on the dismantling of the soft (and some hard) power structures. But I get the feeling there's some granularity we are both missing, and the group saying those things then and these things now (pro/anti Trump reactionaries), isn't as big as we think.

Re: ‘Bloody Saturday’ at Voice of America and other U.S.-funded networks

#120

Post by monetus » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 7:48 PM UTC

monetus wrote: post #71

seydor wrote: post #47

It's difficult to understand the american strategy here , and even whether there is one. A state must have a strategy, it cannot be ran like a corporate, or else someone else with a strategy will become more successful. Imagine if the roman empire went "on holiday" sometime around 100AD and just declared "Rome first!" but withdrew from the known world and let the chips fall where they may. "America first" is not some…

The strategy is, "this will make trump feel good today." Trump is terminally online, or in front of a tv, never ending his media diet while simultaneously absorbing no real information about the world. There is no strategy outside of that. They are a cult and sycophants lashing out at anything they enjoy being belligerent towards. In their minds, the abandonment of soft power is being strong by just throwing away all…

Also, I know it is namby-pamby, but that hasn't been what I've heard people say for a while now.