Live data from Hacker News

Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

theverge.com

251–260 of 270 posts

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#251
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You admit that you’re getting older, and I think that’s part of the disconnect with emojis. OK does not convey the same thing. You’re talking about having to zoom in to see the emoji, and the younger crowd already has every one memorized. The reactions may not help you but I’d say for most of us, they do help.

> OK does not convey the same thing. Fine. Is "10-4" or "copy that" or "Roger" acceptable? Because the whole point of that text, in a work context (and this is always a work conversation; I like my partners but I'm not personal friends with them), is to convey "I have received your message". And a reaction generates an SMS that is, until you realize what it is, kind of incomprehensible. "Loved '[my comment]'" makes n…

> OK does not convey the same thing. Fine. Is "10-4" or "copy that" or "Roger" acceptable? Because the whole point of that text, in a work context (and this is always a work conversation; I like my partners but I'm not personal friends with them), is to convey "I have received your message".

So I had missed the “in a work context”, where I think your point is slightly more valid.

>And a reaction generates an SMS that is, until you realize what it is, kind of incomprehensible. "Loved '[my comment]'" makes no sense when you get it as a long comment.

Only if you don’t both have iPhones, and the necessary information is all at the beginning. You see “Loved” and a few words from the start of the message and you remember what you said and you know which message.

> The reactions may not help you I have trouble seeing how they help anyone. You made an obvious joke. A guy who laughs at anything reacts "HA-HA!!" or whatever. What is the contribution?

So this answer may surprise you, but emoji reacts actually do communicate something unique, and of value. They are more subtle. They also permit the conversation to terminate after the react. In my mind, and the mind of many others, an actual message necessitates a response, and I’d see it as rude to neither respond nor react to a message. Reactions are subtle and out of hand, and you don’t respond _to_ a reaction. Using a react instead of an actual text response has a way of signaling the other user that they don’t need to respond further, that you read their message, how you feel about it, and no further information is necessary. This is incredibly useful and I’d struggle to communicate with any kind of emotional nuance in this day and age without it. More fundamentally, reactions solve the problem of non-verbal communication and body language in text.

>This isn't "get off my lawn", much as I do love that.

It gives “get off my lawn” a bit when you say you don’t see how it would be useful to anyone. I’d never try to convince you that you need to use it, but I do think you should understand the utility for everyone else.

But, I definitely understand that it’s not useful for your professional use case as an anesthesiologist. Also, wow, what a cool job (seriously)!

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#252
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really shows how apple is only into privacy when it's self-serving.

How does it show that? Blue bubbles don't mean privacy, and green bubbles don't mean insecure. I would presume encrypted RCS would satisfy privacy, and would remain green to indicate it doesn't support iMessage-specific features.

Because it leaks the device type of your messaging partner.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#253
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you have evidence for this?

It’s the way Apple works, and their behavior so far has been consistent. Blue bubbles are a branding thing, they wouldn’t share them with others. Then what’s the point of having the branding? They do actually indicate a difference of functionality. RCS doesn’t support iMessage apps for example, not that those get much use. But like I said, even at parity I think they’d keep the branding.

the issue is that it simply may not be up to them, at least in Europe. if the EU decides that keeping the blue bubbles contravenes the DMA, then the blue bubbles will go

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#254
post #222
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage has nothing to do with RCS, though. I'm also curious how key exchanges will work across operating systems on the latter.

Yes, but it seems unlikely that they wouldn’t reuse as much of that infrastructure as possible to perform the same function for the same users.

It’s not the same function.

Think about it this way: you create an RCS message and hit send. Apple has to encrypt it now but all they have is a phone number. The phone number might belong to a local carrier or one on the other side of the planet. They need the public key associated with that number, right? Who has that? How do they get it? Who owns and manages that infrastructure?

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#255
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it seems unlikely that they wouldn’t reuse as much of that infrastructure as possible to perform the same function for the same users.

It’s not the same function. Think about it this way: you create an RCS message and hit send. Apple has to encrypt it now but all they have is a phone number. The phone number might belong to a local carrier or one on the other side of the planet. They need the public key associated with that number, right? Who has that? How do they get it? Who owns and manages that infrastructure?

That’s the same problem they have with iMessage: you can watch this the first time you use a new number and it displays green at first but switches to blue once it retrieves the other party’s key. That happens by connecting to Apple’s servers, which seems likely to be the same thing they’d do for RCS.

Another function which is the same: you connect to the server to register your device to your account. It uses hardware attestation to verify that the hardware is what it claims, trying to make spammers have to buy physical devices and to prevent spoofing.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#256
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered using something like Slack or Discord or (can’t believe I’m suggesting this) Teams, all of which sound like they’d be more suited to your use case? This does not sound like an impossible stretch, works on more device types, and in the case of Slack or Teams can also be configured for HIPAA compliance (which while you don’t call it out, seems like it may be useful). Tens of millions of people use a…

I have never used Slack or Discord. I have only used Teams for Zoom-esque meetings. We do not have desks. Nor do we have offices. I'm an anesthesiologist; I work where the patient and the surgeon are.

None of those are desktop applications, all work on Android and iPhones alike. All are more suitable for your use cases than SMS, iMessage or RCS.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#257
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's false. The color green is irrelevant. If the Apple bubbles had been green, and the Android bubbles had been blue, still the Android bubbles would have been shamed. It was never about the color. It was because of the SMS/iMessage feature incompatibilities.

Let me spell it out: the arbitrary color lets you identify the ones who use Android. Some people think the reason for using Android is being poor. Others don’t want to be seen as poor, because social posturing is important to them.

> Others don’t want to be seen as poor, because social posturing is important to them.

Then they should buy an iPhone if social posturing is important to them.

In all seriousness now: the green buble shows you that you’re sending SMSes which, based on carrier and/or country it can cost you, especially if you’re roaming overseeas where every SMS is 10/20/50c each.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#258
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What false pretense? They dictate two different ways of sending messages with different capabilities.

If they were functionally equivalent, why signal a difference? What's the benefit, you think? I'm not saying that they definitely would signal a difference, but in this hypothetical, if the color difference remained, it would be obvious why.

> If they were functionally equivalent, why signal a difference?

Equivalent does not mean the same. Sending an actual SMS can cost extra.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage is encrypted. Blue means the “SMS” was sent over iMessage and it is secure. Green means it was sent as a normal SMS. This is super helpful for non-technical people that want privacy.

> Green means it was sent as a normal SMS No it doesn't, and it would mean that even less when green messages start meaning end-to-end encrypted RCS.

What does it mean then? Genuine question.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#260
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> keep the channel clear, or contact me otherwise I realize that I live in an unusual life vis-a-vis most HN readers. I do not work in tech, and I never have. I'm a physician: specifically, an anesthesiologist. I have always enjoyed tech, and I'm certainly miles ahead of most of my colleagues on that. But. Remote work is not possible. Relocating involves getting a new license to practice medicine (3-8 months), gettin…

I get not being able to ignore calls (although that sounds like hell too, given how common spam calls are to US numbers), but it would really not be possible for people to agree to call you if they urgently need something? Not doubting your description of your situation, and it does sound extremely stressful.

No, not really. I’m on call for the whole hospital, after all. Any doctor or nurse can ask who’s on call for anesthesia and get my number. Some call, most text.
Post reply on HN