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Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

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Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#171

Post by cubefox »

klabb3 wrote: post #168
cubefox wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn’t matter if both support 100% identical feature sets, it’s gonna stay like that. That's completely irrelevant. The problem was (obviously!) always about the incompatibilities rather than the color.

Not to Google. Green bubbles were a big social shaming issue affecting the sale of Android. This is all in the US only afaik. So in other countries with a similar iPhone market share there isn’t a green bubble social stigma.

That's false. The color green is irrelevant. If the Apple bubbles had been green, and the Android bubbles had been blue, still the Android bubbles would have been shamed. It was never about the color. It was because of the SMS/iMessage feature incompatibilities.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#173

Post by rafram »

TheDong wrote: post #119
jandrewrogers wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve pretty much indirectly nailed the issue: on iOS, iMessage is much more than just a “chat app”. It has an unrivaled feature set on iOS that isn’t replicable on other chat apps. The discourse that reduces it to a “chat app” is critically missing this point. This wouldn’t mean much if iOS was a small percentage of phones. In regions where it is a majority of phones people use those additional features. In places…

What features? The only two features I can think of that iMessage has which discord/whatsapp/etc don't are: 1. Automatically can flip to "do not disturb" mode when my phone is in sleep mode, and display that notice to my companion. Other chat apps require manually configuring that I think. I also suspect apple doesn't provide an API to make this easily possible for other apps. 2. iMessage makes it easy to identify th…

> I also suspect apple doesn't provide an API to make this easily possible for other apps.

They do: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/...

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#174

Post by devilbunny »

Twisell wrote: post #151
devilbunny wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OK does not convey the same thing. Fine. Is "10-4" or "copy that" or "Roger" acceptable? Because the whole point of that text, in a work context (and this is always a work conversation; I like my partners but I'm not personal friends with them), is to convey "I have received your message". And a reaction generates an SMS that is, until you realize what it is, kind of incomprehensible. "Loved '[my comment]'" makes n…

Well you actually make a point for short reaction standardized support. You won't be able to alter behavior of everyone around you. So at least the software should render these interactions in the least obnoxious way by being consistent on both side. You will always be able to ask for textual clarification. But the big win is that you won't be bothered by sub-par quoting repost.

> You will always be able to ask for textual clarification. But the big win is that you won't be bothered by sub-par quoting repost.

Why would I need textual clarification? It was/is a mediocre joke. I don't need to comment on everything that crosses my path.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#175

Post by pastage »

devilbunny wrote: post #143
rzz3 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You admit that you’re getting older, and I think that’s part of the disconnect with emojis. OK does not convey the same thing. You’re talking about having to zoom in to see the emoji, and the younger crowd already has every one memorized. The reactions may not help you but I’d say for most of us, they do help.

> OK does not convey the same thing. Fine. Is "10-4" or "copy that" or "Roger" acceptable? Because the whole point of that text, in a work context (and this is always a work conversation; I like my partners but I'm not personal friends with them), is to convey "I have received your message". And a reaction generates an SMS that is, until you realize what it is, kind of incomprehensible. "Loved '[my comment]'" makes n…

We are 3-6 people, and our pattern is specific reaction to questions like this. "do (specific task) so I can go forward" "can someone take over communication with X", depending on what we do we react differently I will do it/it is done/please clarify. This means that if you need two people in a meeting and get two "please clarify" and two "will be there" reactions, there will be less traffic in the chat. It is more concise.

You have a hint above you need to be specific what means what, when we onboard new people we go through these things. This is a problem with ontologies you have to be specific and not allow meanings to drift.

I am not a emoji expert but this has been a way to make our chats a lot more easy to get a grip on.

We do not use Apple so do not get "Loved X" types of messages.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#176

Post by klabb3 »

eknkc wrote: post #164

It’s funny that everyone bashed Apple for their lack of RCS support and now that they have it, all posts seem to indicate RCS is a shit standard at best. I have no idea if it is but that’s the impression I got. I guess it was just a talking point to shit on Apple’s approach? I don’t care anyway. Here everyone uses WhatsApp so RCS is not important but just an outsider observation.

> I guess it was just a talking point to shit on Apple’s approach?

Apple is not a sports team. What people are shitting on is a vendor-specific messaging app. It would be the same if there was a Samsung chat.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#177

Post by jeroenhd »

acdha wrote: post #32
jeroenhd wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The encryption is based on MLS: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9420.html I don't think Google wanted to gatekeep their E2EE implementation. They have some generic documentation about how it works: https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf The thing about RCS is that no messengers seem to care at all about implementing RCS themselves. Part of that is probably because depending on the carrier, RCS ma…

The protocol is open but key exchange is not: even on Android, third-party messengers can’t interoperate with Google Messages. See page 11 of that PDF.

That's true, but Google has also indicated that they're switching to the GSMA spec which is intended for interoperability.

I also doubt that Google would withhold such details from parties like Apple even if they maintained their proprietary format. Small developers would need to reverse engineer the details, unfortunately.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#178

Post by klabb3 »

cubefox wrote: post #171
klabb3 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to Google. Green bubbles were a big social shaming issue affecting the sale of Android. This is all in the US only afaik. So in other countries with a similar iPhone market share there isn’t a green bubble social stigma.

That's false. The color green is irrelevant. If the Apple bubbles had been green, and the Android bubbles had been blue, still the Android bubbles would have been shamed. It was never about the color. It was because of the SMS/iMessage feature incompatibilities.

Let me spell it out: the arbitrary color lets you identify the ones who use Android. Some people think the reason for using Android is being poor. Others don’t want to be seen as poor, because social posturing is important to them.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#179

Post by jeroenhd »

DownrightNifty wrote: post #59
jeroenhd wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The encryption is based on MLS: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9420.html I don't think Google wanted to gatekeep their E2EE implementation. They have some generic documentation about how it works: https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf The thing about RCS is that no messengers seem to care at all about implementing RCS themselves. Part of that is probably because depending on the carrier, RCS ma…

> many developers are waiting for Google to add RCS to the same API that SMS/MMS already exposes because they don't want to implement RCS themselves. Is that a planned feature? It's frustrating that third party messaging apps don't work with RCS. I hope we don't have to get the EU involved here...

I haven't seen any indication of that at all. There's sort of an API, but it's basically restricted to Samsung's messenger only.

The EU won't get involved unless a significant chunk of the user base uses Google Messenger. I don't think EU users will reach that threshold because most of the EU uses basically any chat app except for SMS/MMS. Things like receiving verification SMS messages still work using the existing API and I have a feeling that that represents the majority of SMS use in the EU.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#180

Post by devilbunny »

jen20 wrote: post #149
devilbunny wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all live in the same metro area. You might eat as early as five, you might finish as late as nine. But if you're going to use the business group, it should be about business. Banter is fine during working hours. People get lazy and just use the "whole group" message rather than send it to those who are working today. And it's much like my problems with Android vs iOS: there are twelve people in this group, eleven…

Have you considered using something like Slack or Discord or (can’t believe I’m suggesting this) Teams, all of which sound like they’d be more suited to your use case? This does not sound like an impossible stretch, works on more device types, and in the case of Slack or Teams can also be configured for HIPAA compliance (which while you don’t call it out, seems like it may be useful). Tens of millions of people use a…

I have never used Slack or Discord. I have only used Teams for Zoom-esque meetings.

We do not have desks. Nor do we have offices.

I'm an anesthesiologist; I work where the patient and the surgeon are.

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