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Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

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Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#121

Post by RataNova »

oneplane wrote: post #5

So essentially, it's not really an Apple thing, it's more that the universal RCS profile just didn't have encryption, and Google RCS was a non-standard extension that nobody else was allowed to use. The real news is the update to GSMA RCS, because without that, none of this matters. What I'm missing in the article is who's going to own the keys and why this is probably going to default to the telcos as if it's MMS. A…

Given how telcos historically handled messaging (like MMS), skepticism is understandable

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#122

Post by RataNova »

alwayslikethis wrote: post #36

Unfortunately, RCS on Android requires google apps, so this isn't really a solution to anyone who doesn't want to be tracked by Google everywhere they go. I'm still a little confused as to what problem RCS is supposed to solve. It is just as centralized as any other chat app, and is a bit more invasive (often requiring device attestation). Is it really worth all this hassle just to not have to install, let's say, Sig…

Your point about Google's central role is spot-on, and without an open, Google-independent implementation, RCS does remain problematic for anyone avoiding that ecosystem.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#124

Post by devilbunny »

lxgr wrote: post #95
devilbunny wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never seen a reaction that helped. "OK" is short, it's in plain text, and it works easily. I don't need your thumbs up. Or your like. You want to emoji, go ahead, but I'm getting older and I can't zoom in on them without blowing up general text to the same size. With more complex emoji I have to screenshot the text and then pull up the image to zoom on it to even tell what it is. I'd silence the conversation,…

While acknowledging that you might not have any agency about this in your specific situation, this sounds more like a social/boundaries problem than a technical one. If I were in a group chat with people both joking around and sending messages requiring urgent responses, I'd let them know to either cut the banter and keep the channel clear, or contact me otherwise if they need my urgent reaction. Letting people hold…

> keep the channel clear, or contact me otherwise

I realize that I live in an unusual life vis-a-vis most HN readers. I do not work in tech, and I never have. I'm a physician: specifically, an anesthesiologist. I have always enjoyed tech, and I'm certainly miles ahead of most of my colleagues on that. But. Remote work is not possible. Relocating involves getting a new license to practice medicine (3-8 months), getting accepted by the medical staff of any hospital or surgery center you want to work at (~2 months after license is secure and job contract is signed), and all the usual stuff.

So I cannot not answer any number that isn't outside the US system when I'm on call. I can't silence the phone when I'm on call. I can't ignore messages. But we're a partnership, so there's no HR to file a complaint with when someone banters on a business channel, and I can't order them to do something any more than they could order me.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#125

Post by yieldcrv »

preya2k wrote: post #117

I’ve been reading about RCS for maybe 10 years now, yet it’s not really available/usable for everyone? It feels like Vaporware at this point.

iOS and Android both use RCS

iOS as a fallback messaging system since iOS 18, before falling back to SMS

exposing which people are google voice numbers vs actual android devices

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#126

Post by zacwest »

TheDong wrote: post #119
jandrewrogers wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve pretty much indirectly nailed the issue: on iOS, iMessage is much more than just a “chat app”. It has an unrivaled feature set on iOS that isn’t replicable on other chat apps. The discourse that reduces it to a “chat app” is critically missing this point. This wouldn’t mean much if iOS was a small percentage of phones. In regions where it is a majority of phones people use those additional features. In places…

What features? The only two features I can think of that iMessage has which discord/whatsapp/etc don't are: 1. Automatically can flip to "do not disturb" mode when my phone is in sleep mode, and display that notice to my companion. Other chat apps require manually configuring that I think. I also suspect apple doesn't provide an API to make this easily possible for other apps. 2. iMessage makes it easy to identify th…

Knowing focus status and being told live when it changes are public API. I think other apps just choose not to do it. Sample project: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/...

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#127

Post by devilbunny »

TheDong wrote: post #119
jandrewrogers wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve pretty much indirectly nailed the issue: on iOS, iMessage is much more than just a “chat app”. It has an unrivaled feature set on iOS that isn’t replicable on other chat apps. The discourse that reduces it to a “chat app” is critically missing this point. This wouldn’t mean much if iOS was a small percentage of phones. In regions where it is a majority of phones people use those additional features. In places…

What features? The only two features I can think of that iMessage has which discord/whatsapp/etc don't are: 1. Automatically can flip to "do not disturb" mode when my phone is in sleep mode, and display that notice to my companion. Other chat apps require manually configuring that I think. I also suspect apple doesn't provide an API to make this easily possible for other apps. 2. iMessage makes it easy to identify th…

You don't work with non-techie adults, do you?

They use iMessage with their family and friends. They use it at work too. Some of their friends, and maybe some of their family, work at the same place. I can try to convince 11 other people who are my business partners to switch to, say, Signal. A special app used only for our group communications. Or I can buy an iPhone. I chose the latter.

It's not my choice. I'm making the best of it that I can. I wish it were not so, but it is.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#128

Post by rkangel »

TheDong wrote: post #119
jandrewrogers wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve pretty much indirectly nailed the issue: on iOS, iMessage is much more than just a “chat app”. It has an unrivaled feature set on iOS that isn’t replicable on other chat apps. The discourse that reduces it to a “chat app” is critically missing this point. This wouldn’t mean much if iOS was a small percentage of phones. In regions where it is a majority of phones people use those additional features. In places…

What features? The only two features I can think of that iMessage has which discord/whatsapp/etc don't are: 1. Automatically can flip to "do not disturb" mode when my phone is in sleep mode, and display that notice to my companion. Other chat apps require manually configuring that I think. I also suspect apple doesn't provide an API to make this easily possible for other apps. 2. iMessage makes it easy to identify th…

> iMessage makes it easy to identify the poors, the android users, and ignore them.

I hope this is sarcasm, and you're not actually that narrow minded.

It is an interesting complete marketing victory in the US by Apple though, that there is a widespread perception that you would only have an Android if you couldn't afford an iPhone. I've had an iPhone for work, it's fine. I much prefer Android and I'll stick to it, and the reasons for that have nothing to do with money. I'm glad I don't love in the US where that would apparently make me a social pariah.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#129

Post by cubefox »

MBCook wrote: post #44
jandrewrogers wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who they'd happily supply with details to get rid of the green bubble problem I would be surprised if this eliminates green bubbles. iMessage supports many features unavailable over RCS on Android devices. These would still be disabled and Apple needs a way to indicate a degraded feature set to iMessage users.

Yep. They’re never going away. Blue = iMessage Green = Other It doesn’t matter if both support 100% identical feature sets, it’s gonna stay like that.

> It doesn’t matter if both support 100% identical feature sets, it’s gonna stay like that.

That's completely irrelevant. The problem was (obviously!) always about the incompatibilities rather than the color.

Re: Apple will soon support encrypted RCS messaging with Android users

#130

Post by cubefox »

jeroenhd wrote: post #30
oneplane wrote: post #5

So essentially, it's not really an Apple thing, it's more that the universal RCS profile just didn't have encryption, and Google RCS was a non-standard extension that nobody else was allowed to use. The real news is the update to GSMA RCS, because without that, none of this matters. What I'm missing in the article is who's going to own the keys and why this is probably going to default to the telcos as if it's MMS. A…

The encryption is based on MLS: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9420.html I don't think Google wanted to gatekeep their E2EE implementation. They have some generic documentation about how it works: https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf The thing about RCS is that no messengers seem to care at all about implementing RCS themselves. Part of that is probably because depending on the carrier, RCS ma…

> I don't think reverse engineering the remaining unknowns about the protocol (mostly "what server" and "what message contents") aren't that difficult.

That's hard to parse. Removing the double negation, we end up with

"I think reverse engineering the remaining unknowns about the protocol (mostly "what server" and "what message contents") are that difficult."

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