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Athena landed in a dark crater where the temperature was -280° F / -173° C

arstechnica.com

221–230 of 277 posts

Re: Athena landed in a dark crater where the temperature was -280° F / -173° C

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The space surrounding you may not have a temperature but your spacecraft does, and it will lose heat via radiation, batteries and electronics will stop working after your temperature reaches a certain low.

Any moderately active satellite has far more issues with excess heat

It does, but here we are talking about a spacecraft not exposed to sun radiation and without significant amounts of stored energy to generate heat to overcome the heat losses due.

Re: Athena landed in a dark crater where the temperature was -280° F / -173° C

#222

Here's the hole it fell into: https://www.lroc.asu.edu/images/1408

Great shoutout to Arizona State University for the images. I like to see when someone or some group gets some recognition for work they have performed in relative obscurity for a very long time. Years of craft, getting better and better at something most don't bother with. Then suddenly your expertise gets a spotlight in a meaningful way.

(Yes, I suppose there are many other sources that could provide images. These happen to be from ASU.)

Re: Athena landed in a dark crater where the temperature was -280° F / -173° C

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The top-heavy design didn't help things either Just wait for SpaceX to start trying to land starships on the moon. Also vertically. Also doomed to tip over whenever the surface is slightly out of spec. https://www.spacex.com/humanspaceflight/moon/

Why does this even have to be a problem? We can send small probes to image the moon in incredibly high resolution. It's a big place I'm sure there is a perfectly flat rock somewhere they can use.

Have you ever seen a perfectly flat rock anywhere on earth? One capable of supporting a large rocket? Also, the moon doesn't have the various navigation systems (GPS/radar) that is used when bringing rocket stages back the pad.

Re: Athena landed in a dark crater where the temperature was -280° F / -173° C

#224

Is there any reason why we couldn't have some rudimentary GPS-like satellites around the moon? That could help out these kinds of landers, no?

Who do you propose should fund lunar GPS for the benefit of private companies who want to land on the moon?

Re: Athena landed in a dark crater where the temperature was -280° F / -173° C

#225
post #8

Still unclear what happened. Did they not anticipate a big moon hole or did navigation fail when the rangefinder failed?

I'm not sure what you find unclear. Navigation was fine - "Athena knew where it was relative to the surface of the Moon" - but without a working altimeter it was kinda fucked for actually touching down. Hard landing, skid, tip.

But if they knew where it was relative to the surface of the Moon, they could have subtracted that from where it wasn't, or where it wasn't from where it was (whichever is greater), to obtain a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem could then use deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it was to a position where it wasn't.

Re: Athena landed in a dark crater where the temperature was -280° F / -173° C

#226

Is there any reason why we couldn't have some rudimentary GPS-like satellites around the moon? That could help out these kinds of landers, no?

High lunar orbits is unstable because of Earth influence (i. e. long-term orbiting requires lots of fuel for extensive orbit maintenance). Most low orbits are unstable as well because of uneven mass distribution, but there are some exceptions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_orbit Low orbits would also require either more satellites for complete coverage or synchronizing launch window, which is PITA enough as it is now.

Re: Athena landed in a dark crater where the temperature was -280° F / -173° C

#228
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also have the atmosphere, with drag that will make all velocities trend towards zero. Don’t have that on the moon, gotta do it all with fuel. More than half of the energy she’s by the returning falcon is aerobraking. Yes, the moon has substantially less gravity but it’s also exponentially harder to get the fuel there.

"the atmosphere, with drag that will make all velocities trend towards zero" Did you forget about gravity? Terminal velocity in free-fall is not zero!

Trend towards. The rocket is descending far faster than low altitude terminal velocity.

Re: Athena landed in a dark crater where the temperature was -280° F / -173° C

#229

the altimeter? Surely you would put three on there?

If I’m not mistaken there are three on commercial aircraft.. Seems like the bare minimum for a lunar lander .. I can’t imagine they’re THAT heavy

Heavier than you think, probably. I tried looking up laser altimeters suitable for moon landings and was met with a much higher than anticipated amount of complexity. One thing was clear: the higher the altimeter needs to work, the heavier.

Re: Athena landed in a dark crater where the temperature was -280° F / -173° C

#230

the altimeter? Surely you would put three on there?

+1 They had the altimeter fail on the previous mission too. Seems like a fairly crucial component of a moon lander . Armchair rocket scientist here, but if I were on that engineering team I'd lobby hard for less science payloads and more backups for critical instruments for the actual flight of the craft. The rover and hopper and drill etc all sound cool yes, but worthless if you can't land. Again. For the second tim…

> They had the altimeter fail on the previous mission too.

Not really. They forgot to toggle the safety switch on before launch, so the laser could not be used:

https://spaceq.ca/simple-error-could-have-resulted-in-intuit...

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