Live data from Hacker News

In S3 simplicity is table stakes

allthingsdistributed.com

41–50 of 142 posts

Re: In S3 simplicity is table stakes

#41
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon claims 99.999999999% durability. If you have ten million objects, you should lose one every 10k years or so.

How does that compare to competitors and things like distributed file systems?

I generally see object storage systems advertise 11 9s of availability. You would usually see a commercial distributed file system (obviously stuff like Ceph and Lustre will depend on your specific configuration) advertise less (to trade off performance for durability).

Re: In S3 simplicity is table stakes

#42
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's going to depend a lot on what your needs are, particularly in terms of redundancy and durability. S3 takes care of a lot of that for you. One server with a RAID array can survive, usually, 1 or maybe 2 drive failures. The remaining drives in the array will have to do more work when a failed drive is replaced and data is copied to the new array member. This sometimes leads to additional failures before replacem…

How many businesses or applications really need 99.999999999% durability and 99.99% availability? Is your whole stack organized to deliver the forementioned durability and availability?

Different people and organizations will have different needs, as indicated in the first sentence of my post. For some use cases one server is totally fine, but it's good to think through your use cases and understand how loss of availability or loss of data would impact you, and how much you're willing to pay to avoid that.

I'll note that data durability is a bit of a different concern than service availability. A service being down for some amount of time sucks, but it'll probably come back up at some point and life moves on. If data is lost completely, it's just gone. It's going to have to be re-created from other sources, generated fresh, or accepted as irreplaceable and lost forever.

Some use cases can tolerate losing some or all of the data. Many can't, so data durability tends to be a concern for non-trivial use cases.

Re: In S3 simplicity is table stakes

#43
if only metadata could be queried without processing a csv output file first, imagine storing thumbnails in there even! copied objects had actual events, not something you have to dig cloudtrail for, you could get last update time from a bucket to make caching easier

Re: In S3 simplicity is table stakes

#44
S3 was one of the first offerings coming out of AWS right? It’s pretty legendary and a great concept to begin with. You can tell by how much sense it makes and then trying to wrap your ahead around the web dev world pre-S3.

Re: In S3 simplicity is table stakes

#45

if only metadata could be queried without processing a csv output file first, imagine storing thumbnails in there even! copied objects had actual events, not something you have to dig cloudtrail for, you could get last update time from a bucket to make caching easier

Are you talking about getting metadata from many objects in the bucket simultaneously? You might be interested in S3 Metadata https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonS3/latest/userguide/UsingM....

Re: In S3 simplicity is table stakes

#46
post #34

I found out last year that you can actually run a full SPA using S3 and a CDN. It’s kind of a nuts platform

I use S3+Cloudfront for static sites and Cloudflare workers if it needed.

It's always crazy to me that people will run a could be static site on Netlify/Vercel/etc.

Re: In S3 simplicity is table stakes

#47

S3 is up there as one of my favorite tech products ever. Over the years I've used it for all sorts of things but most recently I've been using it to roll my own DB backup system. One of the things that shocks me about the system is the level of object durability. A few years ago I was taking an AWS certification course and learned that their durability number means that one can expect to loose data about once every 1…

I've used it for server backups too, just a simple webserver. Built a script that takes the webserver files, config files and makes a database dump, packages it all into a .tar.gz file on monday mornings, and uploads it to S3 using a "write only into this bucket" access key. In S3 I had it set up so it sends me an email whenever a new file was added, and that anything older than 3 weeks is put into cold storage.

Of course, I lost that script when the server crashed, the one thing I didn't back up properly.

Re: In S3 simplicity is table stakes

#48
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> their durability number means that one can expect to loose data about once every 10,000 years What does that mean? If I have 1 million objects, I loose 100 per year?

Amazon claims 99.999999999% durability. If you have ten million objects, you should lose one every 10k years or so.

it's really not that impressive, but you have to use erasure coding (chop the data D in X parts, use these to generate Y extra pieces, and store all X+Y of them) iso replication (store D n times)

Re: In S3 simplicity is table stakes

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's going to depend a lot on what your needs are, particularly in terms of redundancy and durability. S3 takes care of a lot of that for you. One server with a RAID array can survive, usually, 1 or maybe 2 drive failures. The remaining drives in the array will have to do more work when a failed drive is replaced and data is copied to the new array member. This sometimes leads to additional failures before replacem…

> One server with a RAID array can survive, usually, 1 or maybe 2 drive failures. Standard RAID configurations can only handle 2 failures, but there are libraries and filesystems allowing arbitrarily high redundancy.

As long as it's all in one server, there's still a lot of situations that can immediately cut through all that redundancy.

As long as it's all in one physical location, there's still fire and weather as ways to immediately cut through all that redundancy.

Re: In S3 simplicity is table stakes

#50
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article, they say that exactly. Its by Dr Werner Vogels, they know exactly what goes into S3, since they are a principal engineer on the project.

It’s Vogels’ blog but this is a guest post by Andy Warfield.

My mistake, I stand corrected.
Post reply on HN