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OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#541

Post by [deleted] »

danaris wrote: post #494
Dylan16807 wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do have to pay that. But if it's not fair use, they'd need to negotiate a custom license on top of that, for every single thing they use.

Where do they have to pay that? Where have they paid for each artwork from DeviantArt, paheal, etc that they trained Stable Diffusion on? Where have they paid for each independent blog post that they trained ChatGPT on? Yes, they've made a few deals with specific companies that host a large amount of content. That's a far cry from paying a fair price for each copyrighted work they ingest. Nearly everything on the Int…

[deleted]

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#542

Post by lazyeye »

sitkack wrote: post #224
api wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI lobbied for restrictive rules, and now they want an "out" but only for themselves. Absolute naked regulatory capture.

Also textbook Fascism. Trump should have a Most Favored Corporate status, each corporation in a vertical can compete for favor and the one that does gets to be "teacher's pet" when it comes to exemptions, contracts, trade deals, priority in resource right access, etc.

Groan....

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#543

Post by jsemrau »

taurath wrote: post #41
dchichkov wrote: post #8

>> In the proposal, OpenAI also said the U.S. needs “a copyright strategy that promotes the freedom to learn” and on “preserving American AI models’ ability to learn from copyrighted material.” Perhaps also symmetric "freedom to learn" from OpenAI models, with some provisions / naming convention? U.S. labs are limited in this way, while labs in China are not.

It still warps my brain, they’ve taken trillions of dollars of industry and made a product worth billions by stealing it. IP is practically the basis of the economy, and these models warp and obfuscate ownership of everything, like a giant reset button on who can hold knowledge. It wouldn’t be legal, or allowed if tech wasn't seen as the growth path of our economy. It’s a hell of a needle to thread and it’s unlikely…

Is it the same thing though? Even though Lord Of The Rings, the book, likely has been used to train the models you can't reproduce it. Nor can you make a derivative of it. Is it really the same comparison like "Simba the white lion" and "the lion king"?

https://abounaja.com/blog/intellectual-property-disputes

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#544

Post by [deleted] »

woah wrote: post #275
taurath wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still warps my brain, they’ve taken trillions of dollars of industry and made a product worth billions by stealing it. IP is practically the basis of the economy, and these models warp and obfuscate ownership of everything, like a giant reset button on who can hold knowledge. It wouldn’t be legal, or allowed if tech wasn't seen as the growth path of our economy. It’s a hell of a needle to thread and it’s unlikely…

"IP" is a very new concept in our culture and completely absent in other cultures. It was invented to prevent verbatim reprints of books, but even so, the publishing industry existed for hundreds of years before then. It's been expanded greatly in the past 50 years. Acting like copyright is some natural law of the universe that LLMs are upending simply because they can learn from written texts is silly. If you want t…

[deleted]

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#545

Post by jsemrau »

mullingitover wrote: post #332
woah wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"IP" is a very new concept in our culture and completely absent in other cultures. It was invented to prevent verbatim reprints of books, but even so, the publishing industry existed for hundreds of years before then. It's been expanded greatly in the past 50 years. Acting like copyright is some natural law of the universe that LLMs are upending simply because they can learn from written texts is silly. If you want t…

> It was invented to prevent verbatim reprints of books It was also invented to keep the publishing houses under control and keep them from papering the land in anti-crown propaganda (like the stuff that fueled the civil war in England and got Charles I beheaded). Probably one of the biggest brewing fights will be whether the models are free to tell the truth or whether they'll be mouthpieces for the ruling class. As…

"mouthpieces for the ruling class"

That's actually a great point. Judging from the current state of media, there is a clear momentum to take sides in moral arguments. Maybe the standard for models need to be a fair use clause?

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#546

Post by scarface_74 »

kadoban wrote: post #539
scarface_74 wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re overindexing on Trump. The US being a police state with the highest incarceration rate in the world, police corruption, civil forfeiture, etc didn’t start with Trump. Tell me one corporation that you can’t get away from? Now tell me how you avoid an over powerful government? Why would you want to give a government with the history of the US more power? Trump was elected fair and square. If you want to blame an…

> Trump was elected fair and square. If you want to blame anyone - blame Americans. Despite the bullshit that the Democrats spout about “this isn’t who we are”. This is exactly who we are. I blame, primarily, the corporate takeover of government, punctuated by Citizen's United and everything that came after, and a couple of generations of a Republican party who have no goal other than setting out to prove that govern…

> I blame, primarily, the corporate takeover of government, punctuated by Citizen's United and everything that came after

Try again, Trump famously didn’t have much corporate backing in 2016. Corporations wanted a standard Republican. He didn’t have any more money than the DNC. He is what the majority of the American people wanted.

> You think you give the corporations all of the money and they're going to be bound by some tiny neutered government?

Again, tell me how a corporation can shoot me with impunity, take my property without due process, literally take away my freedom or stop me because I “fit the description” or look like I don’t belong in a neghborhood where I know I my income was twice the median income in the county?

You worry about some theoretical abstract corporate power, I worry about jack booted thugs with the full force of the government behind them

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#548

Post by Dylan16807 »

stego-tech wrote: post #505
Dylan16807 wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do have to pay that. But if it's not fair use, they'd need to negotiate a custom license on top of that, for every single thing they use.

Weird, I haven't gotten a check from OpenAI, Meta, Anthropic, or any other AI company for any of my works yet, nor have any of my writer, musician, developer, or photographer friends who also self-publish without permissive licenses that would allow for such use. Are you sure they have to compensate creators for the material they use for training, or are you misunderstanding how copyright licensing works in the Unite…

> Weird, I haven't gotten a check from OpenAI, Meta, Anthropic, or any other AI company for any of my works yet, nor have any of my writer, musician, developer, or photographer friends who also self-publish without permissive licenses that would allow for such use.

Can you tell me the specific number of dollars that would be?

I interpreted "pay the price of each copyrighted work" as the sale price, a criticism of things like meta's piracy.

If there was a mandatory licensing regime that AI could use, and there was an exact answer for what the payment would be, I think it might make sense to use "the price" to talk about that license. But right now in today's world it's very confusing to use "the price" to talk about a hypothetical negotiation that has not happened yet, where many many works would never have a number available.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#549

Post by silverliver »

esafak wrote: post #208
crorella wrote: post #47

If they want to avoid paying for the creative effort of authors and other artists then they should also not charge for the use of their models.

No, they should pay. The solution is not to make everything free, but cost the market rate. Somebody made these things; pay them.

... without restricting other people.

This whole mess is because society decided that restricting everyone's rights to share and access information was a sane tradeoff to make for making sure people got paid. No it is not and, so long as humans are physical, it will never be. It appears that humanity will have to get this simple fact hammered into them with every new leap in technology.

Find another work-rewarding scheme. Ensure you get paid before you release information (e.g. crowd funding or contracts with escrows). Forget about nonsensical concepts relating to "intellectual" property (information is not property). Forget recurring revenue from licensing information. You only get paid once when you do work. You are not entitled to anything more. If reality makes living off your work unworkable, do something else.

I'm glad other countries are starting to wake up and ignore this nonsense. Stop trying make something as unnatural and immoral as this work.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#550

Post by kadoban »

scarface_74 wrote: post #546
kadoban wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trump was elected fair and square. If you want to blame anyone - blame Americans. Despite the bullshit that the Democrats spout about “this isn’t who we are”. This is exactly who we are. I blame, primarily, the corporate takeover of government, punctuated by Citizen's United and everything that came after, and a couple of generations of a Republican party who have no goal other than setting out to prove that govern…

> I blame, primarily, the corporate takeover of government, punctuated by Citizen's United and everything that came after Try again, Trump famously didn’t have much corporate backing in 2016. Corporations wanted a standard Republican. He didn’t have any more money than the DNC. He is what the majority of the American people wanted. > You think you give the corporations all of the money and they're going to be bound b…

> Try again, Trump famously didn’t have much corporate backing in 2016. Corporations wanted a standard Republican. He didn’t have any more money than the DNC. He is what the majority of the American people wanted.

I thought you said it didn't start with Trump?

And your premise is wrong anyway, Trump had plenty of corporate support in 2016 and more in 2024, he just had some token resistance from big corps relative to others, they got over it quickly and it was never more than just for show.

> Again, tell me how a corporation can shoot me with impunity, take my property without due process, literally take away my freedom or stop me because I “fit the description” or look like I don’t belong in a neghborhood where I know I my income was twice the median income in the county?

By just doing it, what you think they can't find guns and assholes who need money or are evil? You think they can't find ways to cheat you out of your property or life? Who's going to stop them?

You tear down the government, the corporations will make their own in their own image. The government is _supposed_ to be there, it's the people coming together to do the shared work of society for the common good.

It just has to be a good government, the people have to fight for that. Half of our people fight to tear it down instead and the other half barely know what the hell they want.

> You worry about some theoretical abstract corporate power, I worry about jack booted thugs with the full force of the government behind them

They're the same people. Look at our government. Theoretical abstract, what are you talking about, it's the literal nazi shithead in the whitehouse and all the rest of his enablers.

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