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OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

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Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress didn't explicitly disallow it either. You left that bit out. As such it comes down to interpretation of the existing law. We both clearly agree that doesn't (yet) exist. > IANAL but it's not like the question is finely balanced on a knife's edge and could go either way. I agree, but my interpretation is opposite yours. It seems fairly obvious to me that the spirit of the law permits personal copies. That als…

> Congress didn't explicitly disallow it either. That's the whole point of copyright: only the owner of a copyright has the right to make copies. I don't see how it can be more explicit than that. It's a default-deny policy. There is an archival exception for digital media, so obviously Congress is open to granting exceptions for backup purposes. They chose not to include physical media in this exception.

> only the owner of a copyright has the right to make copies.

You are conveniently omitting the provisions about fair use, which is strange since you're clearly aware of them. The only things copyright is reasonably unambiguous about are sale and distribution. Even then there's lots of grey areas such as performance rights.

You are arguing that something is obviously disallowed but have nothing but your own interpretation to back that up. If the situation was as clear cut as you're trying to make out then where is the precedent showing that personal use archival copies of physical goods are not permitted?

> They chose not to include physical media in this exception.

That's irrelevant to the current discussion, though I'm fairly certain you realize that. Congress declined to weigh in on the matter which (as you clearly know) leaves it up to the courts to interpret the existing law.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, China won't have to, so the AI race would still be over.

So make the AI models public goods, developed by the government. Why should companies be getting rich on everyone else's work?

Well, I guess most copyright we're talking about here is IP owned by very wealthy corporations, to wit:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/column-intellectual-pro...

So I'm not sure that it would really change the status quo for a different group of already rich people to profit off of art created largely by the working poor and owned largely by another group of already rich people.

I guess if you think the government can accomplish what you propose, sure. But seems like that's not going to happen. Except maybe in China, and it sounds like that might be even worse for everyone.

Thus, it really seems like there's a solid point here that abandoning copyright to allow private investors to get rich stealing art from other rich people who really just stole it from poor people anyways is better than not doing that.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#473
post #467

> National security hinges on unfettered access to AI training data, OpenAI says. If it's a Republican administration, yell "national security". If it's Democratic, claims it's in the name of child safety.

More like "national security/America first" vs "climate change". Or just use "think about the children" for them both.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, China won't have to, so the AI race would still be over.

China also doesn't have to care about the will of its people, human rights, freedom of speech, and a bunch of other pesky things that get in the way of doing whatever the fuck you want to people for personal gain.

Neither does mine so we’re on equal footing!

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#475
post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, China won't have to, so the AI race would still be over.

I don't think people realize how much money has been dumped into other Chinese AI models besides Deepseek, even American VCs like Sequoia are getting involved https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonshot_AI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baichuan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniMax_(company) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhipu_AI

It kinda makes sense to spend your dollars where they can actually get used.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#476
The demand here for federal preemption of state law has nothing to do with copyright. Copyright is entirely federal level today. It has to do with preventing the use of AI to enable various forms of oppression.[1] Plus the usual child porno stuff.

What AI companies are really worried about is a right of appeal from decisions made by a computer. The EU has that. "Individuals should not be subject to a decision that is based solely on automated processing (such as algorithms) and that is legally binding or which significantly affects them."[2] This moves the cost of LLM errors from the customer to the company offering the service.

[1] https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/09/california...

[2] https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-topic/data-protection/r...

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulatory capture is a common strategy for synthetic monopolistic competitive firms, and suckers high on their own ego. Deepseek already proved regulation will not be effective at maintaining a market lead. =3

Why won't it? If you get fined millions of dollars (for copyright, of course) if you're found to have anything resembling DeepSeek on your machine - no company in the US is going to run it. The personal market is going to be much smaller than the enterprise market.

That would give an advantage to foreign companies. The EU tried that and while that doesn't destroy your tech dominance overnight, it gradually chips from it.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#479

For those who have used the image generation models and even the text models to create things, there is no way you can look at the Disney-look-alike images and NOT see that as copyright infringement...

I think that's up to the courts to decide on a case by case basis, just like with human-produced content someone alleges as infringing.

Humans of course create things by drawing from past influences, and I would argue so does AI.

In fact, I would say that nothing and nobody starts out original. We need copying to build a foundation of knowledge and understanding. Everything is a copy of something else, the only difference is how much is actually copied, and how obvious it is. Copying is how we learn. We can't introduce anything new until we're fluent in the language of our domain, and we do that through emulation.

So to me the legal argument of AI vs copyright, comes down to how similar a particular result is from the original, and that's a subjective call that a judge or jury would have to make.

Re: OpenAI asks White House for relief from state AI rules

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So make the AI models public goods, developed by the government. Why should companies be getting rich on everyone else's work?

Well, I guess most copyright we're talking about here is IP owned by very wealthy corporations, to wit: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/column-intellectual-pro... So I'm not sure that it would really change the status quo for a different group of already rich people to profit off of art created largely by the working poor and owned largely by another group of already rich people. I guess if you think the governm…

> So I'm not sure that it would really change the status quo for a different group of already rich people to profit off of art created largely by the working poor and owned largely by another group of already rich people.

I did not propose that any rich people profit off of it. It should be a public good.

> I guess if you think the government can accomplish what you propose, sure. But seems like that's not going to happen. Except maybe in China, and it sounds like that might be even worse for everyone.

Throw it at universities, fund it and organize it well. They can take it from where we are right now.

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